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American Equity

blog.samaltman.com

351–360 of 552 posts

Re: American Equity

#351
post #30
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>do what nobody has the balls to do: tax wealth Just to clarify, nobody in the US is doing this, but it's not unheard of elsewhere. For example, Norway has a wealth tax of about 0.85% and there are some other examples at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_tax#Current_examples .

We tax real property, which is a form of wealth taxation.

Right. The bank owns 100% of the property. The "owner" is underwater. And the owner pays property tax. So "wealth" taxation is perfectly fine for that situation.

Re: American Equity

#352
post #336
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but like GM's finance division making car loans; Credit Cards are a viable business even without access to depositors. Often the capital for many bank issued credit cards does not come from depositors at all.

Ok, so we don’t let banks loan money. I guess they may still take deposits but if they are not going to pay any interest people will keep accounts as low as possible. On the other hand, all the financing needs will be covered by other means. These “non-banks” will have to obtain capital as equity and debt, maybe even loans from other non-banks, but certainly not as deposits. What was the problem that we where trying…

> What was the problem that we where trying to fix anyway?

Risk of financial collapse. Banks are risky because they have a lot of leverage, people more directly loaning money may take a 20% hit after a housing collapse, but that's not such a big deal.

Re: American Equity

#353

People already have a share in the GDP. That's what it is, the total domestic product, the sum of all the little parts. The problem is not that people don't have share in it (and this goes for every country, not just for the USA), but that they have a disproportionate share in it. Bill Gates' (to name a random American citizen) has a far larger share in the GDP than most other Americans. If you want to solve that rai…

What are you talking about? I suppose there's technically wiggle room because you said "raise" taxes on the rich (implying that regardless of whatever rich people pay now it should be more). But it's an absolute fiction that rich people don't pay taxes. The top income tax rate is about 43%, and the new GOP tax bill doesn't change that. Did you know the richest 2.7% of all earners pay > 50% of all receipts collected b…

> Or that -- when asked explicitly whether the rich should pay more -- most (3/4) people, like you, say "yes", but when asked what the tax rate should be for top earners, precisely 3/4 of respondents said it should be 30% or below(2). Again, it's 43% right now.

That's comparing a question people likely answered with a total effective income tax rate with the current nominal marginal income tax rate.

Re: American Equity

#354

Even if we act to erase material poverty, there is another greater task, it is to confront the poverty of satisfaction - purpose and dignity - that afflicts us all. Too much and for too long, we seemed to have surrendered personal excellence and community values in the mere accumulation of material things. Our Gross National Product, now, is over $800 billion dollars a year, but that Gross National Product - if we ju…

This is from FDR's 1937 inaugaration:

But here is the challenge to our democracy: In this nation I see tens of millions of its citizens — a substantial part of its whole population — who at this very moment are denied the greater part of what the very lowest standards of today call the necessities of life.

I see millions of families trying to live on incomes so meager that the pall of family disaster hangs over them day by day.

I see millions whose daily lives in city and on farm continue under conditions labeled indecent by a so-called polite society half a century ago.

I see millions denied education, recreation, and the opportunity to better their lot and the lot of their children.

I see millions lacking the means to buy the products of farm and factory and by their poverty denying work and productiveness to many other millions.

I see one-third of a nation ill-housed, ill-clad, ill-nourished.

It is not in despair that I paint you that picture. I paint it for you in hope—because the Nation, seeing and understanding the injustice in it, proposes to paint it out. We are determined to make every American citizen the subject of his country's interest and concern; and we will never regard any faithful law-abiding group within our borders as superfluous. The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.

--

In 2017, around 80 years later, we can perhaps strike ill-clad, and adjust that third a bit, but the rest is still all too true. And some will complain that what we once considered the "lowest standard" has shifted - but a part of decency is accommodation of the worst off within the best of our capability, and our capabilities today have vastly grown compared to our systematic outreach of decency.

Re: American Equity

#355
To some extent we already have an equity share of GDP: we get to vote on our directors and some subsidiaries let us vote on specific initiatives. Furthermore, GDP is frequently taxed to spread dividends to everyone in the form of social insurance payments. This seems more like a framing device or motivation for UBI than a unique idea.

Re: American Equity

#356
It's ridiculous how all this is not based on the motivation of allowing us as a species to progress, but on that of ensuring the leading (?) place of the US in international politics and economics. I wonder, will I live long enough to see nationalisms and nations leave their places to more reasonable groupings, more granular, less impeding, less based on made up shit (race, nation, whatnot...). We don't need to live to become the best predators, if we are the social animals we beleive to be.

Re: American Equity

#357

Something very similar was tried in Russia after the fall of communism, as voucher privatization. The vouchers were immediately bought up at a discount and concentrated wealth in the hands of a few oligarchs. A similar dynamic led to massive pyramid schemes in Albania, which badly eroded public trust in government. A common thread in Altman's proposals for a better world are their ahistorical presentation, as if no o…

[deleted]

Re: American Equity

#359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? I suppose there's technically wiggle room because you said "raise" taxes on the rich (implying that regardless of whatever rich people pay now it should be more). But it's an absolute fiction that rich people don't pay taxes. The top income tax rate is about 43%, and the new GOP tax bill doesn't change that. Did you know the richest 2.7% of all earners pay > 50% of all receipts collected b…

> Or that -- when asked explicitly whether the rich should pay more -- most (3/4) people, like you, say "yes", but when asked what the tax rate should be for top earners, precisely 3/4 of respondents said it should be 30% or below(2). Again, it's 43% right now. That's comparing a question people likely answered with a total effective income tax rate with the current nominal marginal income tax rate.

Not sure what evidence you're basing that off of. An alternative explanation would be people calling for taxes on the rich to be "raised" aren't really sure what they currently are.

Re: American Equity

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> taxing wealth is probably the single most efficient way to do it. It's not taxing wealth so much as taxing the mechanisms that create undue inequality that would work: yes, I'm talking about taxing rental income. The number one driver preventing people from building savings is draining their income through rent. The solution is sort of obvious, but hated by people who love the AirBnB model: https://news.ycombinator…

Pardon me but the solution you claim is already in place, well understood and totally ineffective. Income is already taxable, including rental income. On top of that there are various taxes for owning/occupying a property. It varies with what state/country you live in. Generally speaking, a property is a poor investment if you already have the money, they have poor returns and they don't grow in value outside of a fe…

"Pardon me" but rental income is deductible more than it is taxable; everything to do with owning a property and generating "investment income" from it is incentivized to be deductible; it's a great and super fast way to make lots of money.

I don't know what you do for a living, but I have two graduate degrees in accounting and economics, as well a decade and a half researching and studying this very problem. The solution I outline would work... if the goal is to empower people with "equity" as Sam's article suggests he wants to.

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