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Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

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Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#351

Post by j45 »

IBM wrote: post #63

It's amazing to me how many comments here excuse Google's behavior by offering the impractical "solution" of just not using a smartphone (a false dilemma) when the obvious answer is to get an iPhone. That's the advice of pretty much everyone in the infosec field and I'm sure some of them will attest to that in this thread.

Non-privacy apologists who make such comments are from a newer internet generation and they have not yet experienced valid reasons why this type of behaviour is an issue.

There is very much a reality of smartphones existing for over a decade before this type of data collection was done. It is in no way required or critical. If it was beneficial, it still should be a setting that can be turned off.

This isn't applicable just to service companies like Google who value user information, even when purchasing from a product company such as Apple has laptops phoning home at an incredibly unreasonable rate compared to MacOS 1-2 versions prior.

It's like having to run a firewall on your own devices to protect yourself from the manufacturer. Can we imagine if our routers do this, or did?

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#352

Post by dep_b »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #346
dep_b wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For US$300 you'll get an iPhone SE that'll outrun a Samsung Galaxy S7 in most benchmarks. What's not competitive about that? Can't expect current flagship performance from a US$300 device.

A cheap Android phone runs circles around the most expensive iPhone in day-to-day tasks. https://youtu.be/qcfqhszn7Bk This has been the case for many years now. https://youtu.be/hPhkPXVxISY

So a "cheap" Android phone costing US$500 that came out like yesterday is really good at opening and closing applications. The new benchmark of What Makes A Really Great Phone after It Must Have Slim Bezels wasn't an argument anymore.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#353

Post by code_duck »

fulafel wrote: post #226
IBM wrote: post #63

It's amazing to me how many comments here excuse Google's behavior by offering the impractical "solution" of just not using a smartphone (a false dilemma) when the obvious answer is to get an iPhone. That's the advice of pretty much everyone in the infosec field and I'm sure some of them will attest to that in this thread.

Unfortunately iPhones are way too expensive for most people [1]. [1] http://news.gallup.com/poll/166211/worldwide-median-househol...

You can get older models for about the same price as cheap Android phones - i'd much rather use a 5 or 5S than anything by Kyocera, for instance. I made the mistake of buying a cheap Andriod phone for $40 when I could have gotten a 4S for 50. The 4S would have had a superior camera, security and even typing performance.

Currently I have a iPhone 6 that i got for 200, no contract. Seems pretty affordable to me. In Liberia, maybe not, but I imagine there are millions of iPhone 4s they would be welcome to take off our hands.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#354

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

growse wrote: post #148
JonFish85 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Apple provides a black box with iOS, they have full control. Maybe the next iOS update comes with privacy intrusion because it's more lucrative." This is true, but it's also potentially worthwhile to consider that Apple has positioned themselves as a hardware company (i.e. the majority of their money is based on selling units of hardware), whereas their main competitor here (Google) is an ad company (i.e. the majori…

> This is true, but it's also potentially worthwhile to consider that Apple has positioned themselves as a hardware company (i.e. the majority of their money is based on selling units of hardware), whereas their main competitor here (Google) is an ad company (i.e. the majority of their money comes from selling their users' data). Apple has chosen to highlight their commitment to privacy partially because they feel it…

> But this is all just marketing

Apple has a very strict internal culture of protecting user privacy.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#355

Post by Karunamon »

endorphone wrote: post #321
eridius wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe the next iOS update comes with privacy intrusion because it's more lucrative. Apple has demonstrated time and time again their commitment to privacy and to protecting user data. Apple does not see user data as something to be hoarded. They see user data as a liability and work very hard to collect as little as possible in order to provide the services they do. The idea that Apple is going to discard all of th…

Apple has demonstrated time and time again their commitment to privacy and to protecting user data. Google's entire business is carefully balanced on user trust. Anyone who posits some naive "they're an ad company" nonsense is just muddying the waters. Google is a user-trust company in a variety of spheres, and without that trust they would be annihilated. Apple does not see user data as something to be hoarded I've…

The difference being Apple has put their money where their mouth is. The secure enclave, the FBI case...

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#356

Post by eridius »

endorphone wrote: post #334
JustSomeNobody wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Siri is so far behind Amazon and Google's voice assistants that if they're Hoovering up the datas, they're doing it wrong. I'm a (mostly) happy [0] Apple customer. The lack of evidence that they are gathering all my bits makes me comfortable to use their products. I strongly feel we'd hear leaks about how they are saying one thing and doing another if they were. Employees of Apple aren't that loyal. Yet here we are w…

You realize that Apple admitted to collecting cell tower and wifi data years ago, wholly separate from any location data, right? That they still do to this day . https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2011/04/27Apple-Q-A-on-Locati... It is impossible that a unique device submits data about cell and wifi locations in an "anonymous" way aside from putting another party in between (a party that you'd have to trust), and that ca…

Why is it impossible? It's only "impossible" if cell phones have unique IP addresses. But, and I admit I've never tested this, my understanding is cell phones may switch IP addresses any time they reconnect to the network.

And even if a cell phone does keep the same IP address for a long time, I'm confident that Apple is completely ignoring the IP address for each submission and taking only the encrypted location data. Apple has gone to great lengths to preserve privacy in so many other cases, it's outrageously nonsensical to accuse Apple of trying to match IP addresses with location data to identify individual devices (and besides, even if they did do that, all they'd know is the rough location history of some device, but nothing at all about what that device is or who owns it).

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#358

Post by Karunamon »

kerberos84 wrote: post #269
akoncius wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah. I decided to avoid chrome at all costs when noticed that when you install chrome and have firefox already installed , chrome automatically without user’s acknowledgement installs some mysterious google plugin which does not sure what. To verify it , I reproduced same scenario again and plugin was installed again. After that I uninstalled chrome and avoid google products as much as possible.

Chrome does not allow you even to turn off auto-updates. Why? Because then they can't use their new tracking and advertising techniques on you.

Or rather, because people can't be trusted to update their browsers and turn their machines into a danger to themselves and others. No need for assuming malice.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#359

Post by marcosdumay »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #354
growse wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is true, but it's also potentially worthwhile to consider that Apple has positioned themselves as a hardware company (i.e. the majority of their money is based on selling units of hardware), whereas their main competitor here (Google) is an ad company (i.e. the majority of their money comes from selling their users' data). Apple has chosen to highlight their commitment to privacy partially because they feel it…

> But this is all just marketing Apple has a very strict internal culture of protecting user privacy.

And you know that exactly how?

Or, maybe more relevant, how do I get to know that?

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#360

Post by scott_karana »

module0000 wrote: post #62
nvr219 wrote: post #24

If you care about personal privacy and security of your friends and family, you should discourage them from using Android.

> ....you should discourage them from using Android. You should discourage them from carrying a portable radio transceiver, ie a cell phone, with them at all times. You only know about this because you read it in the news - Android is not the only outfit doing this. Sending tower-data back home is a fundamental part of your cell phone's operation. Without that information, your carrier would have no idea which tower…

What the hell happened to the principle of least privilege?!

Yes, your carrier already has this information, and should be considered depending on the threat model you're concerned about.

However, NO, this does not mean that other unrelated parties have any business with the data!

The attack surface goes up exponentially with every additional data holder.

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