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Key Reinstallation Attacks – Breaking WPA2 by Forcing Nonce Reuse

krackattacks.com

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Re: Key Reinstallation Attacks – Breaking WPA2 by Forcing Nonce Reuse

#351

Post by wolfgang42 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #99
titzer wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps "defect" is the wrong word given the circumstances, but the result is the same. There's a good reason for the embargo: this all takes cooperation, as it's not a Nash equilibrium. I still agree with their decision not to include OpenBSD so early in further disclosures, given Theo's short-sighted statement.

> Perhaps "defect" is the wrong word It's precisely the correct word. Prisoner's dilemma are simple, mathematically. This was one. OpenBSD defected. The joke's on the security researcher, though, since this doesn't appear to have been their first time [1][2]. Robert Axelrod outlined, in his 1984 classic The Evolution of Cooperation [3] four requirements for a successful iterative prisoner's dilemma strategy. One is r…

Both your [1] and [2] seem to conclude that violating the embargo had no significant ill effects: "since... the underlying issue was already publicly known, OpenBSD's commits don't change things much." If "defecting" causes no problems for the other participants, does it actually count as defecting? (And if not, how is this a mathematically simple prisoner's dilemma?)

Re: Key Reinstallation Attacks – Breaking WPA2 by Forcing Nonce Reuse

#352

Post by cgtyoder »

endorphone wrote: post #166
Perseids wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To underline your point, even my Nexus 5 (_from Google_), which is a little less than 3 years old, will never receive security updates. And one of the main reasons I chose the Nexus was to be sure to get updates on time. Except for the security vulnerabilities, everything of the device is totally fine. It's such a waste of resources… (In this case I at least have an alternative in the form of Lineage OS, which will o…

The Nexus 5 was released 4 years ago. At the same time the iPhone 5C was released. The 5C also won't receive a patch for this. There is a problem with handset abandonment, but this is true across all vendors, and it does not underline sequence7's claim that this is solely an Android problem.

> The 5C also won't receive a patch for this.

You don't know that. Apple could very well release an iOS 10 update for this.

Re: Key Reinstallation Attacks – Breaking WPA2 by Forcing Nonce Reuse

#353

Post by techdragon »

gsnedders wrote: post #236
pfg wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, these two examples are both on the extreme end: The Nexus 5 being one of the longest supported Android phones on the market, and the 5C having a rather short support period, compared to other iPhones like the 5S, which was released along with the 5C and got iOS 11. Security updates for the Nexus 5 also stopped shipping about a year earlier. There's still room for improvement for Apple (5 years of security…

Has anyone ever taken a vendor to court on the basis of consumer rights and not providing security updates and the product therefore not being fit for purpose? For example, under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 in the UK the product must last for as long as a reasonable person would expect it to, and Apple's interpretation of that is five/six years (see https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/ ).

I'm always tempted by this, I have time, I know people, but the thing is, you agree too far to many contracts by starting to use such a device, that just navigating the initial waters to find a path to sue anyone is a complete non-starter. I'm not able to tilt at this windmill. Hopefully the Purism phone succeeds and I can buy one. Till then ill keep buying a top of the line Apple phone each 4-5 years when support runs out.

Re: Key Reinstallation Attacks – Breaking WPA2 by Forcing Nonce Reuse

#354

Post by pasxizeis »

orblivion wrote: post #149

I'm not sure I understand the concern with breaking WiFi. Okay, so you're vulnerable to snooping and injection by people in the same coffee shop or your neighborhood. But you're already vulnerable to that from anybody on the Internet between you and the site. HTTPS solves both of these. Am I missing something?

Yes, you miss ssl stripping.

Re: Key Reinstallation Attacks – Breaking WPA2 by Forcing Nonce Reuse

#355

Post by beingmyself2 »

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #225
sequence7 wrote: post #102

As an Android user is there any mitigation for this other than ditching my handset and switching to an iPhone or waiting (hopelessly) for a patch from my vendor. This really does highlight the absolute disaster zone that the Android handset market has become as far as updates are concerned. I'm sure the Pixels will get a fix relatively quickly but almost every other Android user is going to be left in security limbo.

I appreciate this is coming from a UK perspective and that not everyone is this lucky, but I don't remember the last time I used public WiFi on my phone thanks to a general mistrust of it and the fact that 4G (or at least HSPA+) has very good coverage here.

Don't forget the fact that carriers are now snooping your 4G data and selling it to advertisers. It has been a bad week for privacy.

Re: Key Reinstallation Attacks – Breaking WPA2 by Forcing Nonce Reuse

#356

Post by gsnedders »

techdragon wrote: post #353
gsnedders wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has anyone ever taken a vendor to court on the basis of consumer rights and not providing security updates and the product therefore not being fit for purpose? For example, under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 in the UK the product must last for as long as a reasonable person would expect it to, and Apple's interpretation of that is five/six years (see https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/ ).

I'm always tempted by this, I have time, I know people, but the thing is, you agree too far to many contracts by starting to use such a device, that just navigating the initial waters to find a path to sue anyone is a complete non-starter. I'm not able to tilt at this windmill. Hopefully the Purism phone succeeds and I can buy one. Till then ill keep buying a top of the line Apple phone each 4-5 years when support ru…

> you agree too far to many contracts by starting to use such a device, that just navigating the initial waters to find a path to sue anyone is a complete non-starter

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 also covers unfair terms in sales contracts (and at least in Scotland EULAs are part of the sales contract, per Beta Computers (Europe) Ltd v Adobe Systems (Europe) Ltd; I don't know the status elsewhere in the UK), and it's quite likely you could just go through most of the possible contractual outs and argue they are unfair terms.

Re: Key Reinstallation Attacks – Breaking WPA2 by Forcing Nonce Reuse

#357

Post by SadWebDeveloper »

firewall-bad wrote: post #346
SadWebDeveloper wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have two school of thought here... optimist vs pessimist. Remember that the attack affects mostly client implementations therefore still needs proximity to victim(s), this makes most of the end-of-the-world type scenarios impractical (they even state these on their QA) and leaves exploitation to direct/APT-groups alone.

Well I did mention it's "an end-of-the-world type vulnerability, at least as far as Wi-Fi goes". I don't think it's a lot of consolation saying something along the lines of "Wi-Fi security is broken, but it's not so bad because it's Wi-Fi"

You should read "Silence on the Wire: A Field Guide to Passive Reconnaissance and Indirect Attacks" by Michal Zalewski to expand your universe on things you should be afraid pal.

Interesting book that can really burst your bubble on how bad things are and yet we are still here.

Re: Key Reinstallation Attacks – Breaking WPA2 by Forcing Nonce Reuse

#358

Post by efreak »

scott_karana wrote: post #325
Veratyr wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only so much depends on those binary blobs though and changes to, for example, wpa_supplicant, happen at a much higher level.

Agreed, but unfortunately if the difficulty of maintaining/backporting/forward-porting binary blobs means that nobody will release ROMs for your device (anymore), your point is pretty much irrelevant. ;-)

This is true, however it doesn't make the point irrelevant.

1. Beyond difficulty of porting blobs, you might well also simply get your updates from a custom ROM faster than you'll get them from the manufacturer, even if it's still supported. That in itself is an advantage.

2. Backporting updates to third party components can be simple (assuming a stable ABI/API); the easiest case is probably that of just dropping binaries from a similar phone that did get updated into a zip file and then flashing it. Look at busybox installers, for example; all you need is a version compiled for your hardware. Java components can sometimes be changed as well (see xposed). This works on desktop systems as well, sometimes: I've been able to 'fix' older games into working just by dropping a newer version of a dll into the game directory (directx, openal, etc))

3. Maybe the company is just stupid. Motorola (or is it Verizon?) has tried Marshmallow for the Moto E2 in Europe, but not in the US. I'd expand on this but I'm on mobile and I'm lazy.

Re: Key Reinstallation Attacks – Breaking WPA2 by Forcing Nonce Reuse

#359

Post by deanishe »

rconti wrote: post #343
spsful wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should be good if you’re up to date as of November 6th (I think, it may be November 8th) Swiftonsecurity tweeted this out, it’s a description of KRACK and various devices affected by it. Apparently google already fixed it on android? Also it says that iOS is rumored to be protected against this since iOS 11 but it’s not confirmed. Nobody has put out an official statement yet. What’s weird is that commercial vendo…

October 6th/8th, you mean? I found it interesting that, in his article, he said: "With our novel attack technique, it is now trivial to exploit implementations that only accept encrypted retransmissions of message 3 of the 4-way handshake. In particular this means that attacking macOS and OpenBSD is significantly easier than discussed in the paper" but elsewhere it said recent versions of OS X and iOS are not impacte…

This blog post explains it a bit:

https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2017/10/16/falling-...

Re: Key Reinstallation Attacks – Breaking WPA2 by Forcing Nonce Reuse

#360

Post by rightos »

makomk wrote: post #39
brango wrote: post #6

Is there a way I can install an open source phone OS on my old Android phones to keep them patched? I'm not prepared to keep buying new phones just because manufacturers only provide intermittent updates for a year or two. Anyone got any suggestions for options?

Unfortunately, Google has given app developers a quite powerful tool to disable the use of their apps on non-official OS images, in the form of SafetyNet. So even if you can install an open source version of Android expect a bunch of stuff to no longer work afterwards.

SafetyNet doesn't actually detect custom ROMs, a stock LineageOS will pass it on most devices at least.

It attempts to detect root or modifications to the ROM by malicious software.

Certain newer devices have secure boot attestation that may cause SafetyNet to fail unless spoofed to be a different device which does not have such attestation.

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