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Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

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Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#351

Post by lliamander »

dragonwriter wrote: post #341
lliamander wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Charlottesville protests were centered on a statue You know, in Seattle there is a rather grand looking statue of Lenin. He was a rather evil guy. Who gets to decide which statue stays and which goes?

> You know, in Seattle there is a rather grand looking statue of Lenin. He was a rather evil guy. The Seattle Lenin is privately owned, so not parallel to the Lee statue in Charlottesville. > Who gets to decide which statue stays and which goes? The owners of the statues?

A fair point. I see how the two situations are different.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#352

Post by jacquesm »

frubar wrote: post #345
jacquesm wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be hard pressed to attribute any aggression to me.

I don't mean physical aggression, I mean verbal bullying. And I may be projecting other "similar feeling" posts to yours too much. But the kind of behavior I'm seeing now is a bit saddening. I remember when HN guidelines said something to the effect of "Instead of saying 'C++ was created after C, idiot' you can shorten it to 'C++ was created after C'". But I see posts in the tone of yours which say something like "Th…

You use quotes to show that I said something but I did no such thing.

> Maybe the poster just has ignorant friends/family and really doesn't know any better.

That's quite possibly true. But regardless, at least they don't stoop to putting words in my mouth that I never used in that particular order and with that particular goal.

> Maybe they have opinions right now that they're going to be really embarrassed about in 10-20 years.

Let's hope not, it would be painful for all involved.

> But if you immediately group them together with people like Hitler

Well, when Neo Nazis walk the land waving flags and re-living the past as much as they can invoking Hitler is fair game.

Mind you: The pre World War II Nazis of old (and their sympathizers) to some extent could be forgiven because they could claim they had no idea what it all would lead to.

But the present day Nazis and their sympathizers have no such excuse.

> So I have to wonder what is even the utility of such posts except to signal to others which camp you're in.

To try to convince someone to see things in a slightly different light. And if you had been reading this thread with a bit more attention you could see some of that at work. It's not going to be a large change but speaking out about this stuff is the least that we can do.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#353

Post by croon »

humanrebar wrote: post #301
croon wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Damore who denied interviews with internationally renowned news organisations to go on Youtube with alt-right crazy Stefan Molyneux? The Damore who sourced real science in an effort to try to legitimize his own non-sequitor opinions in a memo? The Damore who made a t-shirt comparing a company with snack bars, lego corners, project choice and hundreds of thousands of dollar salaries with communist forced labor cam…

Damore was fired by left-wing people for his beliefs. I don't think that's controversial. I think if there's not room to discuss issues with someone like Damore (and, sure, show him to be a fool if warranted) or to work in a professional capacity with Eich (likewise), the left has an extremism problem.

You mean the issues Damore made up, as opposed to arguing in good faith from the sources he provided, and not taking artistic liberty in his conclusions?

The researcher Damore cites:

> It is unclear to me that this sex difference would play a role in success within the Google workplace (in particular, not being able to handle stresses of leadership in the workplace. That’s a huge stretch to me),” writes Schmitt.

And Eichs belief that gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry, meaning they should have less rights than straight people?

It is neither a left problem, extremism problem, or even a problem.

If you discriminate, you should get fired. The fact that this can even be claimed as a political/partisan issue is frightening. And if it somehow is partisan, the left isn't the issue.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#354

Post by [deleted] »

fastball wrote: post #316
grasshopperpurp wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, yeah, sure. It's everyone else. Good point.

You live in a bubble if you think a handful of countries in Europe qualify as "everyone else" in the world , and also if you think those countries haven't had any issues with Universal Healthcare.

[deleted]

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#355

Post by throwawaymanbot »

leereeves wrote: post #137
throwawaymanbot wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi lee, if you may have seen on the Internet, the Stormfront website, and not to mention other places you may have frequented. He indeed ticked the box of "speaking up". He sadly did not specifically point out the KKK/Alt-right/facists and how there was an attempt to murder a crowd of people. (His daughter did though point out the KKK/White supremacist part though in a tweet so kudos to her) The fascists were quite p…

> not to mention other places you may have frequented. Thanks for demonstrating the kind of character assassination the left so frequently tries to use against moderates. > how there was an attempt to murder a crowd of people. Trump also retweeted this: the DOJ is opening a civil rights investigation on the car attack in Charlottesville

He sadly added that in after the fact. The alt-right celebrated him not pointing fingers at what they just did. Thats not my opinion, thats fact. Its been screenshotted on their website.

Strong condemnation came from other people like McCain etc. But not from Trump. The DOJ is currently headed by Jeff Sessions, ill let you google his views on race. (unless you want me to do that for you also)

You are one of many on here pretending to be moderate to normies. Not fooling anyone.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#356

Post by frubar »

jacquesm wrote: post #352
frubar wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean physical aggression, I mean verbal bullying. And I may be projecting other "similar feeling" posts to yours too much. But the kind of behavior I'm seeing now is a bit saddening. I remember when HN guidelines said something to the effect of "Instead of saying 'C++ was created after C, idiot' you can shorten it to 'C++ was created after C'". But I see posts in the tone of yours which say something like "Th…

You use quotes to show that I said something but I did no such thing. > Maybe the poster just has ignorant friends/family and really doesn't know any better. That's quite possibly true. But regardless, at least they don't stoop to putting words in my mouth that I never used in that particular order and with that particular goal. > Maybe they have opinions right now that they're going to be really embarrassed about in…

>You use quotes to show that I said something but I did no such thing.

No, I explicitly stated that I was grouping your posts in with others that seem similar to me (and acknowledged that I could be in error on that).

>But regardless, at least they don't stoop to putting words in my mouth that I never used in that particular order and with that particular goal.

You're a software developer, right? So think a bit more abstract. I suspect my point fits to things you've written in this thread.

>Let's hope not, it would be painful for all involved.

Why? Thinking stupid things is part of growing up. The much more important bit is eventually correcting as many of those things as possible.

>But the present day Nazis and their sympathizers have no such excuse.

Here we're in agreement. If someone identifies as a Nazi then the game changes. But I just see a lot of e.g. Trump supporters right now that I can't shake the feeling that they're not being evil they're just ignorant on a lot of things the rest of us aren't.

>It's not going to be a large change but speaking out about this stuff is the least that we can do.

Please don't take my replies as trying to shut you down. My point is entirely about tone. Nothing else.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#357

Post by madengr »

cpr wrote: post #230
otalp wrote: post #7

Major companies that still have representatives in the council: GM, Blackrock, BCG, Walmart, Boeing, Pepsi, IBM, GE, Dow, Dell, Whirlpool, Ford, Johnson&Johnson, Lockheed Martin, US Steel, 3M, Corning Everyone who has left: Uber(Travel Ban and #DeleteUber), Disney(Paris withdrawal), Tesla/SpaceX(Paris Withdrawal). And now Merck, Under Armour and Intel(all left after failure to condemn white supremacists)

Trump did disavow the white supremacists. Not fast enough for them?

It amazes me that the media & democrats still have not figured out how shrewd Trump is. The aforementioned consider themselves intellectuals, and Trump the buffoon. Trump has a hell of a track record turning everything they say against them. He is is REALLY shrewd. They keep playing by his rules, and end up with egg on their faces. Maybe the'll figure out not to fall for playing his game. I find it all quite entertaining; bait and troll.

Whatever he failed to say, it's deliberate and calculated, and they are playing right into it. They'd better just wait it out for 4 years, because their collective intelligence does not match his shrewdness.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#358

Post by croon »

makomk wrote: post #343
croon wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coincidentally also the only one who wasn't white.

Coincidentally, he was also the first one who left (edit: not fired). Trump got around to tweeting angrily about the others after you posted this: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/15/trump-hits-ceos-who-left-man...

1) No one was fired.

2) He did that 3 hours after I posted this, and long after they had all left.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#359

Post by jazzyk »

torkins wrote: post #63
wildmusings wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't we demand the same disavowal of left wing radical groups like Antifa from Democratic politicians. There is countless footage of peaceful right-wing protesters getting beat, fire bombed, etc. at Berkeley and elsewhere.

If don't you listen, you don't hear: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-ann-coult... https://www.mediaite.com/tv/elizabeth-warren-to-berkeley-pro... re: Scalise Shooting: In a statement, Senator Sanders wrote that he had been “informed that the alleged shooter at the Republican baseball practice is someone who apparently volunteered on my presidential campaign.” He went on to say: “I am sickened by th…

1. The statement (politico) you refer to was made 5 days after the incident, in a private meeting, Obama said it was "hate crime", did not use the word "racist", did not mention they were BLM sympathizers.

2. Obama did speak up just one day after the events [1], but he did not specifically mention BLM in particular, claiming lack of confirmed info (justifiably so)

Trump immediately spoke up, but did not mention white supremacists, drawing huge criticism.

I am far from a Trump enthusiast, but can you not see double standard applied here?

[1] Full transcript here: http://fortune.com/2016/07/08/transcript-obama-dallas-police...

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#360

Post by jaredklewis »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #344
jaredklewis wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the sense that are a tiny subset of a much larger group? Well, sure I agree. Or in the sense that "white supremacist" besmirches white people the way that "Radical Islamist" besmirches Islam? Ok, I'm not against referring to them just as "racists" or the groups by their respective names (Neo-Nazis, KKK, and so on). In either case, your comparison between Trump and Obama doesn't hold up. > "Trump has not denounced…

> In the sense that are a tiny subset of a much larger group? Well, sure I agree. > Or in the sense that "white supremacist" besmirches white people the way that "Radical Islamist" besmirches Islam? Ok, I'm not against referring to them just as "racists" or the groups by their respective names (Neo-Nazis, KKK, and so on). It's that the larger group gets painted with the bad acts of the malicious minority. And it's mo…

I agree with some of your points, like that there is a sometimes a bit of motte/bailey with the term "racist". But I don't see the Saturday statement as a denunciation (as the word is generally understood by the media and public).

If after the San Bernardino shootings, Obama had said: "We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious violence and use of force on both sides," I don't think it would have been accepted by the public, not just with the partisans, but more generally. Because it makes it sound like Obama considers the police that shot the terrorists to be as bad as the terrorists.

I think we have the same situation here. "Racism" sometimes is used to label non-racist people, but that is not the case here. The protesters were actual racists, like Nazis, KKK, white nationalists and so on. I.e. groups that really do want to racially discriminate and worse, i.e. racists i.e. bigots. These people should be denounced because they are bigots and because they became violent.

The counter protesters aren't bigots. If counter protesters were instigating violence (I don't think they were), then I of course don't support that. But even in that case it only makes sense for Trump to clearly word the statement in a way that makes it clear he is only denouncing the counter-protesters for being violent, not for being bigots.

I'm sure the counter-protesters aren't perfect people, but that doesn't mean we can't differentiate between these groups. http://lesswrong.com/lw/mm/the_fallacy_of_gray/

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