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US quits Paris climate pact

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351–360 of 413 posts

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#351

Does anyone think we might start seeing a brain drain out of the US given the current political climate?

What makes you so sure that the "current political climate" is not making people want to move there? I certainly want to now that Trump got elected, and I'm a libertarian.

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#352
post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, I don't know what "virtue signaling" is, but parent seems like a real, red-blooded American, like me. Not some politically-correct, hypersensitive four-eyes. A guy I can just kick back with some cold brews and watch the game with.

You want to have a beer with someone who disparages "elitist liberal virtue signaling"? Enjoy. BTW I have to wear glasses to write this, sorry about being a filthy "four-eyes".

The parent comment was flagged dead probably because he forgot to add a /sarcasm tag.

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#353
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly. I've seriously begun to consider ways in which I could get set up over seas. I've always wanted to spend some time abroad anyway. It's very hard for me to see a way that the US can get back on track at this point. Most of Congress doesn't seem to really care about the damage that Trump is doing to our reputation. Furthermore, Republicans have successfully neutered (through gerrymandering) the system that wo…

It would be optimistic to count on it, but one of the few ways the US political system could get back on track is through the scale of crisis we may be heading for.

Just to be clear, to which crisis are you referring? Increasing polarization? The shit with Russia? All of these things? Something else?

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#354
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it signifies another nail in the coffin of the American-led rule based world order. In the 20th century the US carefully established an international framework based on the rule of law. In a mere four months that has been thoroughly undermined. Apart from the morally bankrupt policies of pushing down the effect of climate change onto future generations, in the short term it also signals to countries they don't…

I saw one serving senior officer on twitter comment "this must be what suez felt like to the brits"

My history prof used to say that Sir Anthony Eden was the last Prime Minister to believe the United Kingdom was a superpower and the first to prove that it wasn't.

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#355

This is a bad day for the US, since by such a behavior ("America first -- ignore international pacts"), the other countries will less and less likely follow this country (with exception of Saudi Arabia, of course). The Europeans are already drawn to China and India and this will grow stronger. And Trump should not think, that European buyers will be more inclined in the future to support US companies by buying US pro…

Can you explain how Europeans are drawn to China and India given their records on human rights? Are they not informed about the Chinese government? I fail to see how that's more alluring than dealing with America and Trump even with all his faults and arrogance. I think this move was bad and miscalculated at several levels, but I don't think it's going to have the impact you suggest.

"China and India given their records on human rights?" Are you suggesting there is no country in the world where human rights are not violated? I am not defending the violation, but that sentence sounds naively aloof and disconnected from reality.

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#356

Does anyone think we might start seeing a brain drain out of the US given the current political climate?

Yes. Most of the educated Americans I know are assessing emigration in a more-than-idle-dreams way. By 2020 I expect that the most risk-accepting and flexible Americans - the creme de la creme for new ideas and new businesses - will be gone.

If I didn't own property and were single, I'm 100% confident that I would have already packed my things and left. I was heartbroken on election night, and I am heartbroken now. As much as I understand the argument that I should stay and fight for what I believe, every instinct in my body is telling me to flee, before things get really awful.

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#357
post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False. That is "skeptic" nonsense. Note the quotes around skeptic because I don't consider climate denialists true skeptics. "Climategate" was reviewed extensively by numerous organizations and no wrongdoing was found. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Research_Unit_email_c...

Dear oh dear. Using Wikipedia to support Climate Change denial denial? Ignorance is bliss I guess. This is a good overview I picked from a random search of the many issues with Mann's work re the Hockey stick, and his lack of professional integrity [1], which is even hinted at in the well-scrubbed Wikipedia page. Anyway there's a ton of easy-to-find extremely well-sourced information debunking the stick. By the way,…

You posted a garbage book by a non scientist well known conservative climate denier. You are a crackpot and I don't have any more time for this.

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But as far as Trump himself goes, he's not really a Republican. Yes, he is. He may not have a particular devotion to an ideology you'd like to pretend defines the Republican Party, but the US electoral system structurally produces duopoly between parties too broad to have coherent ideology.

Generally speaking Republicans tilt fiscally and socially conservative. I'd be fascinated (no sarcasm) to hear an argument on how party platform and most members are social liberals. To put another way, if you averaged out the beliefs of all who consider themselves Republicans, Trump himself doesn't believe most of it, certainly not dogmatically.

To put another way, if you averaged out the beliefs of all who consider themselves Republicans, Trump himself doesn't believe most of it, certainly not dogmatically.

I think dragonwriter's point is that this is also true of most (many?) other Republicans.

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#359
post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain how Europeans are drawn to China and India given their records on human rights? Are they not informed about the Chinese government? I fail to see how that's more alluring than dealing with America and Trump even with all his faults and arrogance. I think this move was bad and miscalculated at several levels, but I don't think it's going to have the impact you suggest.

"China and India given their records on human rights?" Are you suggesting there is no country in the world where human rights are not violated? I am not defending the violation, but that sentence sounds naively aloof and disconnected from reality.

No I'm not suggesting that at all. I just don't see how Europeans would gravitate towards alignment with those countries after this news given their human rights histories and current governments.

The only thing I can think is that Europeans are more environmentalists and will simply turn the other cheek on those violations so long as they get their climate change deals. Either that or the notion that they'll be pushed toward China and India is overblown.

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's fine. Obama was making that case as well. But this is international diplomacy here. You don't publicly berate and embarrass your allies especially when those countries were already on track to meeting the target.

European countries have no intentions to ever pay the 2%. For example the Belgian Government reiterated right after the G7 that it had no intention to meet that target and plans instead for 1.3% towards 2030. [1] I work in Brussels and I very often heard members of the European Commission / Parliament tell me how nice it was that the USA was paying for everything defence related. [1] http://www.lavenir.net/cnt/dmf201…

not all European countries

the UK, Estonia and Greece meet their obligations here, please don't lump us in with the freeloaders

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