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CEOs Want Their Offices Back

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Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#351

Post by dasmoth »

deepGem wrote: post #101
varelse wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like the cargo cult Agile pandemic peaked a few years ago, I suspect we're reaching peak open floor plans right now. The overall negative effects of an open floor plan for a significant fraction of engineers (though not all) is self-evident and backed up by reams of data stretching back nearly 40 years: http://iansommerville.com/software-engineering-book/web/work... TLDR: 100 square feet of personal space is opt…

I worked at Sun Microsystems for a while and their private office layout was really nice. I can't ballpark the exact size but the office could hold 3 gigantic CRT monitors, 2 desk phones, and had space for 2 visitors. I feel that a 2 person private office is quite optimal, since we are talking about teams. It's easier to pair program or discuss and even maintain silence when required. Office designers will have to pa…

While they're clearly better than open plan, I don't really get two-person offices. They're not that much more space-efficient than single offices, and seem like a none-too-subtle "we don't really trust these coder types on their own" message.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#352

Post by dasmoth »

varelse wrote: post #255
noarchy wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's because it works. There's a reason it's popular. Versus: >That said: a lot of places don't do it correctly and really do deserve being called cargo cults. That's how it always goes, right? Company after company implements some kind of Scrum process, and when it doesn't work the problem is never Scrum itself. I'd contend that the reason things like Scrum are popular is that it gives non-technical managers thin…

To be fair (and probably downvoted), _The Agile Manifesto_ is a great read IMO. None of its 12 principles mandate open floor plans, scrum or daily standups. https://www.smartsheet.com/comprehensive-guide-values-princi... Combine these with Joel Spolsky's 12 steps to better code and I'd call that a winning culture. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/08/09/the-joel-test-12-s... But that's never how it turns out so "yo…

I'd agree with most of that, but for me the point where it starts to go off the rails is

The most efficient and effective method of conveying information to and within a development team is face-to-face conversation.

No, not mandating stand ups and open offices, but it's used to justify those things...

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#353

Post by coffeeski »

draw_down wrote: post #246
khazhoux wrote: post #227

We have an open floor plan, and it works like this: * Desk area is for getting work done. Everyone agrees on this. * We have "phone rooms" for small discussions. But we limit those usually to 1:1s or discussing office politics. * Try to limit all discussions at the desk area to 5 people or less. * If someone sighs loudly as they put on their headphones when you're having a discussion right behind them, then that is t…

Noise canceling headphones don't really work that way in my experience. They're good at canceling out droning background sounds to make the overall sound quieter, but they can't "predict" and cancel out less repetitive/droning sounds sounds like conversations and those godawful clacky keyboards some people insist on. In effect, noise canceling headphones make those sounds louder , relatively speaking, because they qu…

They work great for constant white noise. Not people talking, which is what I thought it would reduce.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#354

Post by varelse »

blhack wrote: post #243
varelse wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its predecessors, yes, many times. The brand new shiny $100 Sculpt? No.

The sculpt with the mouse is about $60 on amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CYX54C0/ref=oh_aui_deta...

Used, not new...

If someone were to lend me this combo for a couple weeks, I'd be happy to evaluate it, and if it worked, I'd buy a bunch of them. But I have a working solution right now so I'm not really in the market for an upgrade.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#355

Post by coffeeski »

hiram112 wrote: post #277
j2bax wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cry me a river. I know a lot of nurses and teachers that feel really bad for the poor software engineer class.

What's that supposed to mean? RNs and Nurse Practioners make at least as much as the typical software engineers in SV. The $175-$250K+ that some of the senior guys at Google and FB make is not typical. Most of us in the rest of the country are probably making about $100K, and that's when we start becoming over-priced. And teachers? I have respect for them, but I don't consider what they do necessarily difficult, espe…

My wife is a teacher, 1 single day in her job and I'd probably be ok being homeless.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#356

Post by noarchy »

abritinthebay wrote: post #333
noarchy wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's because it works. There's a reason it's popular. Versus: >That said: a lot of places don't do it correctly and really do deserve being called cargo cults. That's how it always goes, right? Company after company implements some kind of Scrum process, and when it doesn't work the problem is never Scrum itself. I'd contend that the reason things like Scrum are popular is that it gives non-technical managers thin…

Devs were always measured by velocity. It was just called "deadlines" or milestones in classical waterfall methods. With Scrum (for example) that turns into a much more sane, smaller, easier to predict and adapt with metric. Which is due to smaller units of work and shorter turnaround times. Scrum (and agile in general) isn't magic. It's just sane process improvements. It's also not an all-in-one philosophy. You can…

>Devs were always measured by velocity. It was just called "deadlines" or milestones in classical waterfall methods.

I tend to think that the entire concept of waterfall is a great strawman. At some point, "rapid iteration" runs into the cold, hard reality of how companies tend to work. There are definitely still deadlines, even if no one wants to come out and call them that.

I don't want to suggest that I'm dismissing everything coming out of Scrum (and its cousins) out of hand. But I also think that there's sometimes too much salesmanship pushing it. This represents the commidifying of Agile itself, where now there is money to be made in coaching teams, and selling certifications, regardless of what the end result is.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#357

Post by pavement »

jdc0589 wrote: post #87
jesseryoung wrote: post #50

It seems like when "Open Office" articles come out there seem to be quite a few people talking ill of them. I recently switched jobs and with it switched from an open concept (large room with whiteboards separating teams) to an office (shared with one other coworker.) Maybe I was conditioned to like it (I certainly didn't like it at first) but I really did prefer the open concept when working on a team of 8 or 9 peop…

This is why I actually like cubicles. you are physically close to your team, if your space is organized well you are on a common isle with people you work with, but you still have at least a little bit of isolation in your personal workspace. I DO NOT understand why cubes get so much hate.

Okay, I'll break it down for you:

Open office plans are soul crushing and noisy. They are not explicitly given to disorganization and distraction, but prone to it.

Cubicles are soul crushing and organized. They are not explicitly private, but prone to it.

Not all spaces are created equally. Most are bad, but some are appalling. If you find one that is "good" you probably don't work there. Give it time, and it will suck eventually. They all do. None of them are actually Home.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#358

Post by EliRivers »

mlindner wrote: post #326
bogomipz wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Just like the cargo cult Agile pandemic peaked a few years ago, I suspect we're reaching peak open floor plans right now." Wait, that peaked? That hasn't been my perception. I'm curious where you are seeing that.

Honestly, what's the alternative to Agile? Waterfall? Hell no.

I worked somewhere that did waterfall, hardcore. For everything, requirements came first (sometimes, since moving on, I've even found myself suggesting in meetings that if we don't know what we're meant to be making, the odds of getting it right are pretty slim - obvious yet somehow it needs stating out loud more than it should be). Sometimes literal months were spent on getting them right. Then the design. Full on designs, full on design reviews, the whole lot. It wasn't impossible to come back afterwards and change things, but it was pretty rare. By the time coding came around, it wasn't much more than implementing the design (coded up in literal programming style, too, such that what was written turned into two separate sets, being beautiful latex-based documents interspersing the design and commentary of that design with the code implementing each piece of design, and the code for the compiler to eat); all the actual programming thinking had been done during the design. Then levels of testing, starting small and unit, moving up through the layers until the original requirements were being tested against.

It's the only place I've ever worked in which the customer never registered a single bug. They even asked us if we could take over from a different supplier since they'd never managed to deliver anything that worked. When the tests were signed off (and they literally were; the tester signed their name against each test, data records were archived, the paper test steps and signatures were sealed in envelopes for customer inspection on demand) that software did its job from delivery day one.

Waterfall is really demanding and really hard to do well (and it also requires a high quality of customer; if your customers don't know what they want and simply cannot be guided into telling you, I suspect it's impossible), but it sure can deliver. I've never worked anywhere else that managed such high quality.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#359

Post by AlexandrB »

khazhoux wrote: post #227

We have an open floor plan, and it works like this: * Desk area is for getting work done. Everyone agrees on this. * We have "phone rooms" for small discussions. But we limit those usually to 1:1s or discussing office politics. * Try to limit all discussions at the desk area to 5 people or less. * If someone sighs loudly as they put on their headphones when you're having a discussion right behind them, then that is t…

This is hauntingly familiar. Well done!

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#360

Post by yeukhon »

khazhoux wrote: post #227

We have an open floor plan, and it works like this: * Desk area is for getting work done. Everyone agrees on this. * We have "phone rooms" for small discussions. But we limit those usually to 1:1s or discussing office politics. * Try to limit all discussions at the desk area to 5 people or less. * If someone sighs loudly as they put on their headphones when you're having a discussion right behind them, then that is t…

> * If someone usually works off in quiet parts of the building, one should always remind them "you're never at your desk" with an accusatory tone.

That's me. See the image below. Since I am almost always away from my desk, this is how I remind everyone / greet everyone.

http://imgur.com/a/4GzPl (redacted my cell #)

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