Programmers are most likely to work from home • Hacker News Board

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#351

Post by Canadiadan » Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 3:50 AM UTC

ergothus wrote: post #236

apetresc wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I genuinely cannot figure out what "playing the pronoun game" means in this context.

Sorry - my bad for assuming the expression was commonly known. TL;DR: pronouns in a text exchange are easily confusing. In conversation, most people aren't actually understanding each sentence. Instead, we're mentally and subconsciously keeping a list of terms that we don't understand - usually pronouns - retroactively applying them as more clues come up to what they are. If you watch as an outsider to a short discus…

You are using it incorrectly. From wikipedia:

"Playing the pronoun game" is the act of concealing sexual orientation in conversation by not using a gender-specific pronoun for a partner or a lover, which would reveal the sexual orientation of the person speaking. Lesbian, gay and bisexual people (LGB) may employ the pronoun game when conversing with people to whom they have not "come out". In a situation in which revealing one's sexual orientation would have adverse consequences (such as the loss of a job), playing the pronoun game is seen to be a necessary act of concealment.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#352

Post by laughfactory » Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 4:04 AM UTC

jon-wood wrote: post #286

Arizhel wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone is good at having the discipline to get work done at home and to separate home and work while they're at home. Also, people with young children are naturally going to have a big problem. Lots of people who try it complain that their spouses and kids won't leave them alone at home, thinking that popping in isn't a big deal even though it interrupts their focus. And not everyone can afford a home that give…

Having kids doesn't have to be a big problem. The important thing is to have a space which is work, and make sure everyone knows that when you're in that space its like you're at the office. I've got a three year old who is used to me working from home and doesn't cause any problems at all.

Yeah, it's not an issue for me either. I've set clear boundaries with my family (wife and three kids five and under), and they leave me alone in my workspace. I shut and lock the door and that's it until I come out. Works really well. I wonder if those who've had problems have also had difficulty setting and credibly committing to boundaries. It may not seem like much, but if one of them tries and succeeds in getting your attention (pounding on the door, etc.) then they'll do it again. It's incredibly important that they believe that once the door is closed and locked that you're essentially not there.

My daughters love it when I work from home, so they're very supportive of my boundaries.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#353

Post by laughfactory » Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 4:08 AM UTC

JamesBarney wrote: post #122

NumberSix wrote: post #112

The article does not discuss the impact of the open office movement. I've worked from home, in actual offices, in cubicles both cramped and spacious, and open offices. It can be quite difficult to focus at home due to various distractions, especially if you do not have a separate room or area for work. It is difficult to separate work and non-work with a home office. There are a variety of communications issues with…

There was recently some evidence that open offices led to reduced collaboration because a real office means asking someone a question disturbs one instead of 20 people. So people end up asking less questions, and interacting with there co-workers less.

This is what I've observed in my open office workspace. It's really counterproductive, and a big reason (I believe), why so many employees work from home much of the time. Then again, for most places the alternative is a cubicle farm which isn't any better in my book. Man, nothing makes you feel like a drone like working in a cubicle.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#354

Post by laughfactory » Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 4:14 AM UTC

Arizhel wrote: post #221

ergothus wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what people miss most often is that this is NOT a "one solution fits all" kind of thing. For some office cultures one is better, and for some people one is better. I myself am very easily distracted, and I'm far more productive at home, where I have a private office set to my preferences, including sound (this sounds ridiculous, but my ear cartilage is sensitive, so I can't wear earbuds and over-the-ear headp…

>this sounds ridiculous, but my ear cartilage is sensitive, so I can't wear earbuds and over-the-ear headphones are only comfortable for an hour or two Can't you get some full-size headphones which don't even touch your ears? That should eliminate that problem. I don't think it's too unusual to find it uncomfortable to have stuff pressing onto/into your ear cartilage for hours a day.

Any kind of headphone bothers me, even the ones which are large enough to not touch the ear itself. The only thing I can comfortably wear for longer periods of time is earbuds, but even so I don't like listening to music for long stretches of time. I prefer nothing in, or on, my ears and silence for getting shit done.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#355

Post by BeetleB » Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 4:37 AM UTC

dasmoth wrote: post #322

jamestimmins wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To your first point, Richard Hamming's essay You and Your Research hits on this topic by distinguishing between people who work with their door open and people who work with their door closed. As he put it, the people who worked with the door closed got more work done in the short term, but in the long run had fewer serendipitous strokes of brilliance.

When comparing this to today's workplaces, the most striking point is that they all had doors .

To be fair, we're comparing Bell Labs, where almost all researchers are the best in the world, to an average tech company.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#356

Post by HeavenBanned » Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 5:15 AM UTC

humbleMouse wrote: post #97

pc86 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a horrible attitude. I hope you're just having a bad day and this isn't how you typically act around other because I wouldn't even want to work in the same building as you when as a supposed "top performer" you don't feel the slightest obligation to share your knowledge, your skills, your experience, etc with "shitty college grads." I'm sure you were born knowing how to code so you can't relate, but for everyone…

I'm not saying I don't enjoy mentoring people and sharing knowledge! I'm saying that it is unreasonable for companies to ban WFH, and I explained what I think is the true motivation behind that decision. To clarify - companies are banning WFH so they can lower their hiring bar and take on incompetent people and not have to pay for or provide any company training. They just rely solely on their senior people to teach…

You act as though companies aren't obligated to pool their training resources in a manner in which the senior employees are spending say X amount of time training junior employees. They're spending money on training - just not how you want them to. They're getting training done the way it's been done for thousands of friggin' years, man, via the master and apprentice interplay. Thousands. Of. Years. Mano a mano.

I think working from home makes no sense. Home is for home, and work is for work. If you want to work from home, you should consider freelancing, otherwise working is a collaborative process done in a communal setting and oftentimes the best training is direct, regular contact and education transmitted from sr. to jr. employee. I think most companies have come to this conclusion and have determined that WFH is a detriment to quality jr training and is simply not cost effective.

It's a win-win for the firm:

1.) they get to train their jr.s for the future with high-quality experts from their own team at the scene on demand

2.) they avoid sinking money into shitty training sessions which do nothing but band-aid the lack of genuine mentorship that is not done via chat protocols and instead subtract productivity from the top srs and pool it towards the jrs development.

I'm not sure why you can't see this from the business's perspective. It just seems like you really want to work from home.

But what do I know? My hunch.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#357

Post by ergothus » Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 5:35 AM UTC

Canadiadan wrote: post #351

ergothus wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry - my bad for assuming the expression was commonly known. TL;DR: pronouns in a text exchange are easily confusing. In conversation, most people aren't actually understanding each sentence. Instead, we're mentally and subconsciously keeping a list of terms that we don't understand - usually pronouns - retroactively applying them as more clues come up to what they are. If you watch as an outsider to a short discus…

You are using it incorrectly. From wikipedia: "Playing the pronoun game" is the act of concealing sexual orientation in conversation by not using a gender-specific pronoun for a partner or a lover, which would reveal the sexual orientation of the person speaking. Lesbian, gay and bisexual people (LGB) may employ the pronoun game when conversing with people to whom they have not "come out". In a situation in which rev…

I was using this definition: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=b4pcb4ytjt235ec...

Like many words and phrases, I suspect there are multiple uses (I've found three definitions for "Broken Windows" so far - economics, law enforcement, and coding. While the last two are connected, the first one is not)

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#358

Post by kwhitefoot » Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 6:48 AM UTC

noway421 wrote: post #325

kwhitefoot wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer to work in my cubicle at the office instead of at home even though I am alone in the office for most of the time and all of my development team colleagues are in another country. The reason is that it is simply easier for me to concentrate there, fewer distractions, fewer excuses to take a break. But I'm glad I'm not in the same location as most of my colleagues in the team because they are in an open plan o…

The key here is that no one around and you can concentrate alone.

Exactly.

So the home versus office axis is the wrong one to think about. The deciding factor is how well one can work in which place and that depends on a lot more than home versus office.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#359

Post by ensiferum » Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 7:51 AM UTC

douche wrote: post #69

ensiferum wrote: post #39

I think I'd be utterly depressed if I worked from home. Every day without any human interaction. Plus I really love the clear boundary between work and home. Wouldn't want to pollute my home with work.

> Every day without any human interaction It's the best, I love it. Any human interaction you get is chosen, rather than imposed.

Yeah, well my current situation is that since I live alone in a new country with 0 friends the only interaction I have during the day (excluding shopping for food) is at the office. So I have to take both the bad and the good (i.e. the noise of the open office and the chance for some socialiazing)

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#360

Post by ensiferum » Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 7:57 AM UTC

Arizhel wrote: post #319

ensiferum wrote: post #39

I think I'd be utterly depressed if I worked from home. Every day without any human interaction. Plus I really love the clear boundary between work and home. Wouldn't want to pollute my home with work.

This is why lots of people like to work at coffee shops. You get to be around other people, but it's generally pretty quiet: there's no loud conversations about some stupid sports game the night before; any conversations are usually between two people sitting quietly together, not groups; the people there are total strangers and not coworkers or bosses so it's easy to tune them out mentally and concentrate. In additi…

I've always wondered about what kind of work do these people do. In my (stereotypical mind) they're some skinny hipsters with imacs hacking on the JS framework of the week.

I also wonder about the ergonomics of working from some ad-hoc office. I'd prefer a real office with a standing desk + proper office chair to whatever a coffee shop can provide.

Also as a customer to a coffee shop who just wants to grab a coffee and sit down all those people spending their days there after buying 1 drink and taking several seats with their laptops and books really piss me off. If I was the owner of the coffee shop I'd ask them to leave so that other customers can also come in.