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Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

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351–360 of 439 posts

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#351

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Details puhlease.

iOS 10 doesn't seem offer a built-in Contacts whitelist feature, but iOS does expose an API allowing third-party applications to filter-out incoming calls and messages: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207099 - someone could easily write an app that would use your Contacts as a whitelist, assuming one doesn't already exist.

For iOS, i leave DND mode on full time. Contacts that are Favorited are serve as the whitelist, are not screened by DND. Any second call in 3 minutes will override DND instead of being directed to voicemail.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#352
post #109

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I agree that /r/the_donald is a poor quality experience, but it's analogous and in response to the poor quality experience of the /r/politics. They're both "circlejerks" that don't allow competing views to be posted. So while you may need to take the_donald with a huge grain of salt, if you're only get your news from left wing site like /r/politics, npr, huff po, new york times, and even hacker news for the most part…

politics might downvote something they don't like to oblivion, but TD will ban you for violating the narrative. And if by take it with a grain of salt you mean that nothing in there is actually relevant or related to reality.

TD isn't meant to be a bastion of free speech. It's candidate support website. They say it in the sidebar: "This is a forum for supporters of Trump ONLY". They obviously won't allow anything which does NOT support Trump. /r/politics is supposed to be a neural subreddit, is not even close to it.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#353

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Trolls are a completely different thing than criminal harassment, and it is disingenuous to equate the two. The primary danger is that by lumping people with legitimate criminal complaints in with people who are sad because someone said some mean words to them on the internet, you don't make others more concerned about rudeness, you make them less concerned when someone has a real problem.

Also worth noting that criminal harassment via the internet is largely a failing of law enforcement, not a failing of the infrastructure of the internet or a sudden arrival of a new species of really mean humans. There are some privacy/free speech issues down this road, but by and large LE have abdicated their responsibilities in this area. And while it's a different discussion all together, I think examining why con…

I agree completely with you. Framing the harassment as "trolling" has been a propagandistic victory for the harassers.

Actual trolling is way less worrying. I don't like it and I certainly wouldn't partake in it, but you can actually ignore it. Harassment, not so.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#354

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On one hand you could blame the victims for making themselves available targets and tell them to hide. On the other you could blame the perpetrators looking for targets and try to stop them. The former abdicates societal responsibility for the problem and the latter seeks justice. With more of society now online we should be thinking towards the latter rather than cowering in fear?

Firstly, don't extrapolate and call everyone that's had something rude said to them on the internet a 'victim' just because a very few people have been on the receiving end of genuine harassment. Secondly, nobody is 'telling them to hide'. You can filter out your twitter replies, you can just not read that material . You can read it and say 'wow there are a few nasty people on the internet'. That's up to you. You can…

The problem as I see it is social and solved through policing as we do with other anti-social behaviour.

All of the best online communities I've been part of have had strong moderation including here on HN. So that's one example of how people can take social responsibility at the level of the platform holder. Twitter is a great example of inadequate time and money spent on that problem.

Where things are complicated right now is in the legal sphere where we have a global entity but many fractured jurisdictions. This prevents the problem being tackled at the right level causing it to persist. This isn't even an issue unique to online harassment.

Mollifying and modifying behaviour as an individual is an admission to being in hostile territory. I'd rather we acted together to bring justice and freedom instead.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#355
post #49

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I think it's more of a signal to noise problem. We've had that issue before in society (e.g. the Middle Ages), when information flow was not constructive, and therefore not _additive_. The net result was that society moved sideways, not forward. Contrast that with Victorian England, where large parts of society had "manners", which allowed for information to be constructive, and society (technology, etc) could evolve…

Well a large part of our daily communication is still how's weather like, gossip and what's for dinner. Internet may look like it's all lolcats and trolls if you look hard enough, but that's like dropping into a teenage group and complain all they talk all day is tits and soccer* At any time one can still go on a gated, moderated community and obtain meaningful noise free communication with little interference from t…

While I agree absolutely with this, the problem is that there is a growing base.. What almost feels like it's becoming a mainstream majority, that feel a better solution is to have someone, the government, LE, some invisible hand, take control and deem what is and isn't acceptable thought and speech.

You can see it even on here. Instead of a thicker skin, or not using something like Twitter, people espouse ideas such as enforcing non 'harassing' language. But in my mind there is a clear difference in the 'harassment' online, and real harassment, e.g. you're swatted at 4am, they poison your pets, they stalk you, not just once but could continue for weeks or months or years on end.

At the risk of sounding like an old curmudgeon, I do understand that now more than ever, we have an entire generation that has never been taught anything except their online persona is as important, if not more important than who they are in meatspace. It's easy to understand, they have really become a brand, their own brand, which is both good and unfortunate. The reality is that life will continue on regardless of data pipes working or not.

The growing outcry for safety and homogeneous thought is larger than ever, in almost every aspect. But with regard to the internet, the issue is that as this group becomes the majority, their calls carry more and more weight for moving the internet into the same world as many US universities.. Every campus now has a Free Speech zone, an XX meter square that you can freely speak your mind, and even hand out constitution pamphlets. Step outside that, speak your mind and you are charged with 'harassment'.

I'm not that hopeful though. As we move more into the world of where the government continues to take a larger role in making the internet fair, we relinquish certain other things. Of course, it starts benign, but it ends up quite different.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#357

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The majority of people who say "don't feed the trolls" have never been the focus of a trolling campaign, I've found. It is easy to claim this when you aren't under constant violent harassment and scrutiny. It is not fair to expect everyone else to have a "battle-hardened" stoicism when you've probably never experienced such a life. I've never experienced such harassment myself and used to sing the "ignore" mantra too…

1. 'Trolling' is not harassment. You can harass someone by trolling them incessantly , but harassing people is not 'trolling' them. Don't use them as synonyms. 2. They've never been the focus of a harassment campaign because they're not stupid enough to put their personal details out there on the internet and then be surprised that people will use that to harass them. They also don't feed the trolls in the first plac…

> short attention spans and soundbites. Don't use Twitter.

It does what it says on the tin-- "Twit", right there in the name.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#358

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> 99.9% of people that complain about being harassed would be well-served by just not using Twitter. This is a cop-out. You may not need Twitter for your work, but a lot of us do. If I can't use Twitter, I lose an important way to connect to others in my profession (specifically in open source). And I'm an unimportant software developer. What about women in journalism? What about women in entertainment? They need Twi…

No it is not the same, it's not the same at all . There's a massive, massive difference between someone on the other side of the world sending a nasty message on Twitter and being harassed in the real world by someone on a dark street at night. These are so completely different that I can't believe that you are so tied up in your views that you forget that. Anyone that would suggest they are the same has clearly not…

> Nobody can harm you through Twitter.

Milesrout (real name X, location Y) is molesting children and sapping our precious bodily fluids! He has corrupted the police so they won't stop him. Unless someone takes action we're doomed.

I agree with your general arguments, but it is incorrect to say that harassing people on the internet cannot endanger your life.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#359
post #222

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> We absolutely must have democracy and freedom of speech. You're conflating "Freedom of speech" with "The right to be listened to" and "The right to have a platform". The government isn't going to hunt these people down because they have expressed Foo views, nor is, for example, Google. Google, YouTube, Facebook, etc. as private companies are allowed to decide what they do and do not want on their platform (Excludin…

There's an inherent contradiction in the arguments here. You can't on the one hand say "people have the right to use Twitter free of harassment" because it's ubiquitous, but then on the other hand say Twitter has the right to censor or ban people whose views it as a company doesn't like. These are contrary positions. Either Twitter is a "common carrier" and thus has the responsibility to ensure its users have a commo…

That's wrong though. Even if Twitter were common carrier, the rules of experience and ability to access is still open to rules and interpretation. Under common carrier, some content can be and is censored for certain groups of individuals.

Common carrier also specifically lists certain communications as being prohibited, namely, that which obscene, intent to abuse, threaten, or harass another person.

At that point, it becomes the interpretation of what is harassment? Is it being swatted or stalked, or as it seems to be the trend that now, language or the crime of non similar thought can be considered harassment.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#360
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not about quantity of trolls, it's about the effect of trolls. No one cares if you're a troll on reddit, because there's no personal investment. You're just an account. There's an upper bound on the damage that can be inflicted on you. That is not the case with Facebook. Reddit doesn't have to do anything about trolls except give people a downvote button.

Fair point. It is worth noting that they occasionally stalk users and try to de-anonymize them though this is a fairly "niche" practice.

That would be harassment, no?
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