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GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

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Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#351

Post by nordsieck »

dotnetisnotdead wrote: post #246
strictnein wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I buy or sell a home, I'm very thankful that one of my friends has a realtor's license. None of that 7% BS. None of the dumb games they play. How it came about that the services of two realtors was worth $35k on a $500k home is beyond me. Especially in this day and age, where we all just look online and tell our realtors what houses we want to go to. Half the work they used to do is now done by the client.

I would have to disagree. Yes, much of what they do as far as finding houses can be done online these days, but there are many edge cases where a (good) realtor can save you. When I first purchased a home my credit history was.. interesting. The value the realtor provided was putting me in touch with the right grants, forms, etc and ways to build and fix my credit. They helped me not get scammed with a high interest…

The fundamental underlying problem is that realtors are in a lemon market. The combination of low transaction volume, low cost to enter, and a general inability of customers to determine quality until the deal is done is a toxic blend.

I fully believe that there are realtors out there who make their clients money. There is, however, no reliable way for me to differentiate them from the lazy scumbags.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#352

Post by flamedoge »

ghurtado wrote: post #348
gingerbread-man wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put less brusquely, though, it sounds like what most early-stage startups (fairly) expect. At that stage, working long hours is usually part of the deal, and you're probably getting big equity and a substantial chunk of their last round. It would be a little weird if you had hours of free time for personal hacking after that.

Would it be weird if you liked to play guitar for 20 or 30 minutes in the evenings while employed by a startup? Because that would go against "using any and all your creative energy towards the business of the company"

depending on what you signed, you can totally play guitar without an ounce of creative energy. It just won't be fun.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#353

Post by gedrap »

I really like the idea of it. Especially if the working hours are not very flexible - downtime is inevitable. Whether you are waiting for something, or it's just one of those days (or mornings or whatever). I always have some side/fun/educational projects active and it would be really cool to work on them on such time and, very likely, beneficial to the company because of new skills I'd pick up, etc.

But that's in theory. Curious how do such things work out in practice :) I guess you need really strong technical leadership to pull this off, to convince non-technical execs that it's not time wasted, etc.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#354

Post by yomly »

turc1656 wrote: post #317
braythwayt wrote: post #276

Once upon a time, I was looking for a job, in straightened circumstances. I found a so-so match, and since I was in danger of missing a mortgage payment, I decided to accept their offer. Pragmatism and all that. Well, I went in and picked up the documents, and told them I needed to read them before signing and returning them to the company. I looked at the IP clause, and it said the company owned anything and everyth…

"Now that you mention it, I'm not sure I want to employ someone who uses their creative energy for anything except the company's business." Wow. That statement alone tells you everything you need to know about that person and what kind of manager they are. The fact that it was the founder is just...wow. Since it was the founder, if I was in your shoes I would have asked this fool if they took that same approach when…

It never fails to astound me how such a perverted interpretation of the law can go unregulated.

In the past people would coerce you into doing things by surrounding themselves with big strong men. All that's changed is the now they surround themselves with suits and it's supposedly legal.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#355

Post by andrewfromx »

jogjayr wrote: post #228
andrewfromx wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no, there never was any suing, but trying to adhear to the contract I signed was just impossible. Everywhere you looked you were using a company resource somehow.

Drive to a coffee shop for lunch and work there?

yeah but what if laptop battery was filled with electricity from their office where they pay the electric bill. When I use said laptop in coffee shop, who's resource am I using? Mine cuz I own the laptop or theirs or both?

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#356

Post by ScottBurson »

BuuQu9hu wrote: post #141
throwaway7558 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree--this is excellent and very tech-talent-friendly. As an example on the other side of the spectrum: I work for a very large Silicon Valley company that is well known (you've heard of them) for secrecy and obsessively guarding its IP. Here we can't[1] work on Open Source, work on potential start-up ideas, moonlight writing software for some extra cash, publish (either academically or releasing software online,…

Your employer, of course, is Google; I know this from my own tussles with Google's OSPO, which exists primarily to ensure that engineers don't have lives outside of Google.

My guess was Oracle; this sounds very consistent with what I've heard about them.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#357

Post by andrewfromx »

LiquidFlux wrote: post #304
andrewfromx wrote: post #56

When I was an employee of BizRate/Shopzilla in 2005 I would take my laptop downstairs to my car parked in the company parking garage, and code on my personal project for exactly 1 hour from 12-1 my lunch break. But the laptop was charged with electrons from shopzilla's office plug and the parking garage turns out is still technically on the company's property.

Beside your point, did you happen to use their wifi?

I seem to recall being really careful with a usb drive to move everything to from laptop but it was all insane. No one wanted the code I was writing and making me jump thru all those hoops ruins the creative process. Bravo GitHub. This should be a new standard.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#358

Post by bussierem »

turc1656 wrote: post #343
protonfish wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it Joel Spolsky? https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-pr...

No, but it sounds like he knows about this stuff all too well. His final scenario is essentially what happened to my father: "We are kinda indifferent. If you piss us off, we will look for ways to make you miserable. If you leave and start a competitive company or even a half-competitive company, we will use this contract to bring you to tears. BUT, if you don’t piss us off, and serve us loyally, we’ll look the other…

I had just typed a reply to correct you that the late 90s were not, in fact, 20 years ago. Then I did the math.

I am now very sad.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#359

Post by ScottBurson »

linkregister wrote: post #230
throwaway7558 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree--this is excellent and very tech-talent-friendly. As an example on the other side of the spectrum: I work for a very large Silicon Valley company that is well known (you've heard of them) for secrecy and obsessively guarding its IP. Here we can't[1] work on Open Source, work on potential start-up ideas, moonlight writing software for some extra cash, publish (either academically or releasing software online,…

California state law invalidates the non-compete portion of your contract, so long as you develop your solution on your own time and without company-owned resources.

You've omitted the third requirement, which is the nasty one: your outside project must not relate to the actual or reasonably anticipated R&D of the company.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#360

Post by johngalt »

turc1656 wrote: post #317
braythwayt wrote: post #276

Once upon a time, I was looking for a job, in straightened circumstances. I found a so-so match, and since I was in danger of missing a mortgage payment, I decided to accept their offer. Pragmatism and all that. Well, I went in and picked up the documents, and told them I needed to read them before signing and returning them to the company. I looked at the IP clause, and it said the company owned anything and everyth…

"Now that you mention it, I'm not sure I want to employ someone who uses their creative energy for anything except the company's business." Wow. That statement alone tells you everything you need to know about that person and what kind of manager they are. The fact that it was the founder is just...wow. Since it was the founder, if I was in your shoes I would have asked this fool if they took that same approach when…

> owned every single second of his existence

Cool, so I get all those years of back pay with OT. Feel free to deduct the $10k royalties from the hundreds of thousands you owe me. Every time I thought about music, wrote music, played or practiced music, I was on the clock the entire time. Thanks!

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