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New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

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Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#351

Post by randyrand »

webmaven wrote: post #257
dandare wrote: post #93

A quick calculation: $60,000 in 1989 adjusted for inflation equals $116,132.42 in 2016. This changes the narative a lot.

Rather than adjusting for inflation, try adjusting for productivity instead: http://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/

The productivity gap is really an economics understanding gap.

The whole idea is that when productivity goes up, prices go down! To suggest wages should go up when productivity goes up is a complete misunderstanding of economics. It's stupid. You only need one! Prices going down is how the free market adjust for productivity.

If they wanted to make a fair comparison, chart a graph between productivity and the cost to buy a basket of goods in real money. You'll find wages have gone up! Roughly the rate of GDP growth per year! Shocking!!! /s

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#352

Post by mavelikara »

Bartweiss wrote: post #299
mavelikara wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the value of private company stock can be hard to determine The IRS uses 409A valuation. These valuations have been high enough to cause huge AMT burden to engineers. Sam Altman etc have written about it; Zoe Lofgren herself has been trying for years to fix it. Why do you think it is a joke?

Well, part of the problem is that even if value is calculated right, there's no adjustment for liquidity. Calculating compensation for H1-B purposes based on 409A is a bit silly if there's no way to cash out. That's made all the more true by the possibility of destroying that value later , for instance by agreeing to a high-multiplier preference in later funding. I would accept 409A as a reasonable assessment of a co…

You raise a good point about liquidity.

The PDF linked by OP said "including cash bonuses and similar compensation", and the knee-jerk reaction was "it is a joke". Furthermore, it was explainted that "the value of private company stock can be hard to determine". I pointed out the 409A valuation as a response to this.

I do not know if equity will be counted against income.

But I think it is reasonable to count vested and exercised equity into the pay calculation. After all, IRS uses that to determine taxes.

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#353

Post by WildUtah »

tn13 wrote: post #305
itissid wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the shortest fix for the violation part(Corporate/Ed tech loophole and the Implementation/Consultant loophole) is some boots on the ground for DHS to investigate worksites. If there is enough economic incentive vested in any one area, sooner or later people will game it. And the H1B business is very lucrative. Putting in oversight to such a thing is hard without boots on the ground/human resources. AFAIR Visa…

> DHS to investigate worksites This is not a man in suite arriving at site via Uber asking polite questions. This is mostly a SWAT team storming through all doors and killing dogs if any an then taking away all your documents, interviewing all employees. In short that is end of business to you. Remember they will not come alone. They will bring sleuths from all other departments and you will be fined for not having a…

This is mostly a SWAT team storming through all doors and killing dogs if any an then taking away all your documents, interviewing all employees. In short that is end of business to you.

Yes. That is exactly what I want employers thinking when the offer of cheap H1-Bs tempts them. Let's have a lot more on-site enforcement, please.

And a few horror stories in the media would be a great benefit to Americans.

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#354

Post by rajacombinator »

winter_blue wrote: post #121
anondon wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the impression that this new bill is like putting lipstick on a pig which is the current system. I was hoping the amendments to the H1-B bill would be one of the silver linings of a Trump presidency, but I guess not anymore.

I've commented on this before, at: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13433540 I'm copying the comment below: --- I'm on an H-1B, and the thing that infuriates me about the dialogue on this is that they are effectively trying to ban skilled immigration, and exclude people like me from coming. If you don't qualify for the family-based or refugee route, employment-based immigration is the only viable pathway. The amo…

I'm pretty sure any negative feelings about H1-Bs are not directed at the workers themselves, but rather the companies that use the program as a form of indentured servitude. That suppresses wages in our industry.

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#355

Post by WildUtah »

winter_blue wrote: post #121
anondon wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the impression that this new bill is like putting lipstick on a pig which is the current system. I was hoping the amendments to the H1-B bill would be one of the silver linings of a Trump presidency, but I guess not anymore.

I've commented on this before, at: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13433540 I'm copying the comment below: --- I'm on an H-1B, and the thing that infuriates me about the dialogue on this is that they are effectively trying to ban skilled immigration, and exclude people like me from coming. If you don't qualify for the family-based or refugee route, employment-based immigration is the only viable pathway. The amo…

If you don't qualify for the family-based or refugee route, employment-based immigration is the only viable pathway. The amount of hate I see piled on people trying to come here via the employment-based immigration seems insane to me. These

Clearly the rate of family-based immigration is insane. And the lack of requirements for any kind of skills that would benefit America for relatives is costing America. Outside spouses and minor children, family has no special right to follow immigrants into the USA and privileging unskilled family migrants reduces the chance for a community to assimilate.

That reunification migration program should be regulated and limited severely.

But there is no right for employment based immigration either. There does not need to be a pathway for every single person on Earth to come to America. America is already crowded.

If there's no viable visa category to come to the USA, there are 200 other countries for a person to migrate to. And staying put is a fine option for most migrants as well, though there are exceptions.

The idea that the USA and only the USA is the acceptable destiny for every person is ludicrous and has to stop. We have the highest proportion of foreign born people in hour history already and it's time for a long immigration moratorium to help us absorb the immigrants we have.

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#356

Post by WildUtah »

Retric wrote: post #315
winter_blue wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Likely there should be some path for immigrant students to stay, but H-1B shouldn't be that path. Perhaps they should create an exception that allows immigrant student to work for entry-level market wages for a few years after they graduate. I mean, immigrants students will need some kind of visa that lets them work to stay here after school. It could be the H-1B, or something else. But the only way they can stay i…

There is a huge range of salary's for recent grads from minimum wage to 200+k/year. So, a minimum salary of say 75k would allow many students to stay but not all students to stay. PS: I suspect if there where a direct path from student to staying in the US then people would just game that process. Which would reduce the number of 'real' students and cause a political backlash.

That game is already being played. It's very lucrative for private colleges catering to third world (and second world) kleptocrats that want to plant their children and their dirty cash in the USA.

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#357

Post by dimgl »

snoman wrote: post #296
mi100hael wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why's everyone so focused on IT? Everyone can learn how to code, it's not a real science. I think that's exactly why people are focusing on IT. The H-1B program is meant to allow companies to hire foreigners with rare skills that are hard to find domestically. In reality it's abused to import cheap labor and undercut average American workers doing common work like building applications or administering systems. The…

> In reality it's abused to import cheap labor and undercut average American workers doing common work like building applications or administering systems. Really? How much should it cost to do common work like building crud applications or administering systems? Right now, (based on all the H1-B, and similar visa holders I know, which is a good amount) it's ~2X the median household income to pay one visa holder to d…

That's the point. It's to discourage employers from using H1-B visas to hire people to make CRUD apps and instead hire domestically.

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#358

Post by dandare »

randyrand wrote: post #351
webmaven wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather than adjusting for inflation, try adjusting for productivity instead: http://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/

The productivity gap is really an economics understanding gap. The whole idea is that when productivity goes up, prices go down! To suggest wages should go up when productivity goes up is a complete misunderstanding of economics. It's stupid. You only need one! Prices going down is how the free market adjust for productivity. If they wanted to make a fair comparison, chart a graph between productivity and the cost to…

Good point. Also, wages are not disposable income - the government redistributes more wealth than it used to. The number on your payslip may not be bigger but you can afford more food and health care. Any graph should take this into consideration.

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#360

Post by jgh »

nathanvanfleet wrote: post #297
amluto wrote: post #253

I think this is the entirely wrong solution because it misunderstands the problem. The problem isn't that the H1B requirements are off a bit. The problem is that H1B visa holders are essentially indentured servants. Say you're a foreigner who applies for an H1B job. Your employer does a bunch of paperwork, gets you an H1B visa, and imports you. Now you can't quit because you can't get a new job. Of course you get und…

Is it better to be TN?

TN is better if you're Canadian, but you have to do some legal wizardry if you want to get a green card.
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