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Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

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Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#351

Post by mrep »

dragonwriter wrote: post #241
gohrt wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it true that > The government persists with the drug war because Americans have a moral opposition to drug use: or > Americans have a moral opposition to drug use, because the government persists with the drug war ? Impressionable children are indoctrinated against drug use, by US law enforcement, in US public schools. > 70-80% of polled adults wanted to make even marijuana illegal. That's impossible, because mari…

> Impressionable children are indoctrinated against drug use, by US law enforcement, in US public schools. If you mean things like DARE, its worth noting that studies of DARE have shown that (despite its name and how it is sold to parents, etc.) it has no effect on participant's attitudes toward (or propensity for) drug use, but does make their attitudes toward law enforcement more positive.

> it has no effect on participant's attitudes toward (or propensity for) drug use, but does make their attitudes toward law enforcement more positive.

I would say that's kind of true. I first believed what DARE said and never wanted to use any drugs. I eventually did try 1 and had a totally different experience that what they said and therefore took everything they said to be lieful propaganda.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#352

Post by vithlani »

This idiot was responsible for the Rwandan massacre, he let it happen while sitting on the side and whistling away merrily. He should be indicted for that before any of his infantile opinions do more harm.

A year later, in January 1994, he received an urgent cable from Roméo Dallaire, the Canadian lieutenant general in charge of the UN force in Rwanda, warning him of the impending slaughter of the Tutsi population, and explaining that he planned to intervene by raiding Hutu arms caches. Not only did Annan refuse to allow any measures to be taken to stop the unleashing of genocide, he ensured that the fax informing him of what was in store did not reach the Security Council. Some eight hundred thousand Tutsi died in the ensuing massacre.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n09/perry-anderson/our-man

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#353

Post by cortesoft »

ufmace wrote: post #299
EdHominem wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody becomes a drug addict by accident. Not true. Many people reasonably take the pills their doctor gives them and end up with an addiction. > That poses another moral question: if drugs are harmful and addictive, why can't society ban people from selling them Because you can't. It failed. It's not a moral question. In fact, that's specifically the problem. > but voters aren't driven by cost-benefit analysis. So…

>> but voters aren't driven by cost-benefit analysis. >So, what of it? We should keep doing things we know don't work because the uninformed don't understand? So we live in a democracy, and so have to pay at least some attention to what the people want. The alternative is a dictatorship of some sort. Historically, those tend to ignore cost-benefit analysis and whether or not things actually work just as much as any d…

We don't live in a democracy for exactly those reasons. We have a Constitution to prevent the will of the people from doing certain things. We have representatives to temper the will of the people even more.

We are very purposefully NOT a democracy, because it is well understood that majority rule for everything is VERY bad for the minority, and EVERYONE is a minority in some aspect of their lives.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#354

Post by cortesoft »

magicGLASSman wrote: post #235
mikeash wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that there may be policies which work well if the population participates in them consistently, but which fall apart if everybody gets to pick and choose. The whole point of government is to do these things.

But if most the people agree that the policies are good and best combination of all the other states wouldn't they pay those taxes voluntarily instead of having to be coursed into paying? That is democracy right? otherwise it seems kinda selective as to whose votes mater the most.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_action#Collective_a...

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#355

Post by gozur88 »

zeveb wrote: post #292
rayiner wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're ignoring a morally significant dimension to the problem. Nobody becomes a drug addict by accident. They choose to do drugs and take the risk not just of bodily harm, but of becoming unable to support their families and becoming a burden on society. And your suggestion is that society should spend money to treat them of an illness that was their fault to begin with. I happen to agree with you that treatment, no…

> if drugs are harmful and addictive, why can't society ban people from selling them, like it does for all sorts of other harmful products? That begs the question: should society ban the sale of harmful products? I can buy: a sword; a gun; a packet of cigarettes; arsenic; cyanide; Doritos; Dianetics; Season 1 of Survivor and so forth. All of these things may be argued by some to be harmful (and by others not to be).…

The reason is people take it as given if you mess yourself up the rest of us will have to pay for your treatment. If I have to pay for your mistakes, then I want some say in what you're doing.

Personally, I'd rather live in a more libertarian society, where you could do whatever you want (to yourself) and accept the consequences. But that's not the society we live in.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#356

Post by NotSammyHagar »

logicrook wrote: post #288
mtreis86 wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your assertments about drinking and driving and the probabilities of harmful outcomes. I just don't think it is a good analogy for hardcore drug use. Many of us did not choose to start taking drugs. Not with any real sense of context. The consequences are very often "not real" until they become "all too real." A better analogy, would be "What do you do when you find yourself in a car moving at high speed…

The whole "drug users are victims" makes absolutely no more sense that "any criminal is a victim". You can't find a single person in the world who doesn't have bad circumstances. Even the people at Goldman-Sachs may have had a bad history of bullying, a difficult childhood because of divorce, a family that induced an unhealthy relation to competition or money, whatever. This example is not even a joke. Many "privileg…

Why does the word "victim" matter either way? We should treat drug abuse as a health matter; some people can have a few drinks and eventually get addicted and can't stop drinking every night, others are not affected that way. My mom smoked until she died from cancer, me I never smoked so I avoided the biological component of nicotine addition fortunately.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#357

Post by frogpelt »

droffel wrote: post #271
frogpelt wrote: post #268

Forget questions of legality. Stop and ask this question: Why do we as a society need more and more and MORE mind-altering substances to cope with life? Seriously. Is society headed in the right direction if almost everyone needs some type of external chemical influence just to get through the week? I already have an answer.

> Stop and ask this question: Why do we as a society need more and more and MORE mind-altering substances to cope with life? Citation needed. > Is society headed in the right direction if almost everyone needs some type of external chemical influence just to get through the week? Who are you to decide what the "right direction" is, for anyone but yourself? Right vs Wrong is a moral judgement, not a legal one. No one…

Believe me. People everywhere who think just like you have decided what the right direction is.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#358

Post by frogpelt »

RIMR wrote: post #309
frogpelt wrote: post #268

Forget questions of legality. Stop and ask this question: Why do we as a society need more and more and MORE mind-altering substances to cope with life? Seriously. Is society headed in the right direction if almost everyone needs some type of external chemical influence just to get through the week? I already have an answer.

Answer me this: Have you ever consumed an alcoholic beverage? Have you ever consumed alcohol to the point of intoxication? Well, if you answered yes, then you used a mind-altering substance / external chemical influence for your personal enjoyment. Don't you deserve jail for this? I mean, shouldn't you have been able resist the urge to intoxicate yourself, and instead pushed yourself in the "right direction" of sobri…

How nice of you to be so presumptuous.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#359

Post by frogpelt »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #325
frogpelt wrote: post #268

Forget questions of legality. Stop and ask this question: Why do we as a society need more and more and MORE mind-altering substances to cope with life? Seriously. Is society headed in the right direction if almost everyone needs some type of external chemical influence just to get through the week? I already have an answer.

Forget your answer. Stop and ask this question: Why do we as a society need more and more and MORE stimuli to cope with life? Seriously. Is society headed in the right direction if almost everyone needs some type of external influence just to get through the week? I already have a answer. Problem is, every time you fire up a computer or a phone or a TV, you're seeking a stimulus which is going to fire off chemical si…

Sure. Food and spices are the same as heroin and marijuana.

Ha ha. You're funny.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#360

Post by frogpelt »

parenthephobia wrote: post #132
anon4 wrote: post #72

What about the fact that drugs are incompatible with the lifestyle we want our society to have? Isn't it better instead of legalizing them to find the root cause which is forcing these people to seek escapism from reality in psychoactive substances? I don't want to live in a society of drug addicts, I want to live among people of sound mind, body and spirit, who conduct themselves honestly and honourable among their…

> What about the fact that drugs are incompatible with the lifestyle we want our society to have? Isn't it better instead of legalizing them to find the root cause which is forcing these people to seek escapism from reality in psychoactive substances? Should we be fighting all forms of escapism? Movies, books, comics, computer games? Daydreaming? If not, why are "drugs" different? Does this apply to all psychoactive…

It's ridiculous and juvenile to make these kinds of comparisons.

Do people escape through books and movies? Not usually to the point that they become dangerous.

Let's be adults here.

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