1.5 Million Missing Black Men • Hacker News Board

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#341

Post by PopsiclePete » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 3:37 PM UTC

Snesker wrote: post #291

PopsiclePete wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a few happily married couples in "open" relationships. Poly or whatever you wanna call it. And I know a few unhappy, obviously sexless couples in traditional marriages as well. For me, marriage is both an outdated and terrifying prospect. The thought of being with one woman for the rest of my life, sexually, is off-putting. So instead of doing what many others do - cheat, get caught, divorce, repeat - I just c…

Sex isn't a 'need', get over yourself.

Sex has been one of the major driving forces behind every decision I've made since I turned 13 or so. How I dress, how I talk, why I buy the things I buy and 50% of why I wake up at 5 am to go to the gym, why I go out to obnoxious bars and clubs... how is that not a 'need'? In the hunter-gatherer sense I guess it's not since I won't die if I don't have it but the want to have it as much as possible controls a huge percent of my daily actions. So maybe an 'addiction' then? Fine but now we're splitting hairs.

I would ague that marriage is not a need. It's an artificial construct that we impose on ourselves in a time when we don't need to do it. Women don't need you to survive, they can be their own providers now.

And why do you need to be betrothed to one woman for all eternity? Nature would love for you to spread your seed amongst many more women - larger bio-diversity.

But nobody is stopping you if traditional marriage is what you want to do, of course, more power to you.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#342

Post by foldr » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 3:45 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #306

foldr wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These are obviously based on nationalities of jihadists, not based on percentages of populations whom become jihadists - which I suspect you are confusing my comment as implying. You asked why many Middle Eastern countries produce "so many" jihadists, implying that the majority of these countries are producing a high number. Thus, it makes no sense to respond by listing examples of terrorists or terrorist groups ori…

A quote from my comment above: > I believe most people on HN are aware extremists represent a small percentage of the total populations. I stand by my decision to assume that most people here are smart enough to know the difference. Key word is most people clearly...

Ok, we are getting bogged down because you're persisting in the belief that I'm misinterpreting you in a certain way. I'm not. Let me spell this out as clearly as possible:

I know that you don't care about the number of extremists as a percentage of the total population. I never thought that you did. Neither of us does. Ok?

You're still avoiding the main issue. Are most Middle Eastern countries producing an unusually high number of extremists? You can't show that they are by showing that they produce some extremists. But that's all you've done so far.

In other words, what distinguishes most Middle Eastern countries, in your mind, from e.g. Britain, France and the USA? All of these countries produce some Islamic extremists. So clearly, if you're going to say that there's something special about Middle Eastern countries in this regard, you're going to have to crunch the numbers. I don't see any numbers in any of your posts so far.

Again, none of this has anything to do with the number of extremists in comparison to the total population. The question is whether the number of extremists is significantly larger than the number produced by non-Middle-Eastern countries. In other words, when you said "so many" in your original post, were you correct to imply that the number is generally higher in the Middle East than elsewhere?

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#343

Post by foldr » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 3:48 PM UTC

juliangregorian wrote: post #308

foldr wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sources?

Fine, but learn to Google http://www.dailypaul.com/327703/somewhat-disturbing-map-of-f... http://www.rferl.org/contentinfographics/foreign-fighters-sy...

I don't think you've looked very carefully at the graphic in the second article. You might want to compare the bar chart on the right against a list of countries in the Middle East. The Middle Eastern countries listed are:

Bahrain, Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Yemen

Of those, only Jordan and Saudi Arabia are contributing large numbers of fighters. On the whole, the Middle Eastern countries on the list are contributing relatively few. The next biggest contributors are Tunisia, Bosnia and Kosovo, none of which are in the Middle East.

On top of that, note that BELGIUM is sending at least as many fighters as all of the following Middle Eastern countries (and yes, I am taking into account the different scales on each chart):

Bahrain, Kuwait, Lebanon, Palestine, Turkey, Yemen

Basically, I think you may be forgetting that the "Middle East" isn't anywhere outside of the USA and Europe with lots of brown people.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#344

Post by caramel » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 3:55 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #13

> The black women left behind find that potential partners of the same race are scarce, while men, who face an abundant supply of potential mates, don’t need to compete as hard to find one. As a result, Mr. Charles said, “men seem less likely to commit to romantic relationships, or to work hard to maintain them.” Interesting, I never thought about this side-effect of mass incarceration. Another aggravating factor in…

> I remember reading a hypothesis of why many middle eastern countries generate so many young angry jihadists

Maybe we don't need to look further than the psychological impact of enforced genital mutilation past the age of infancy.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#345

Post by foldr » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 3:58 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #295

discreteevent wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iran high? I wasn't aware of that. Could I ask what you are basing that on. Do you mean Iranian militias which are effectively the army and doing things which could be said to protect their country (as with US soldiers in all kinds of places they probably shouldn't be). If so I don't think that comes under the heading "angry young jihadis"

Iran has backed many jihadist groups. Two examples: Hamas, they are a group against Isreal which receives support from Iran. Iran also backed the Shiite "Mahdi army" during the Iraq war which fought a jihad against American/coalition forces, and today are still involved in a 'defensive jihad' against IS. There are other examples. Jihad has been fought by both Sunni and Shiite groups. But more so by Sunni groups such…

You're shifting the topic. We're talking about how many young Iranian men become terrorists, not the support of various groups by the Iranian state.

Most nation states, certainly including the USA, have at one time or another given material and financial support to terrorist groups. I don't condone it, but Iran is hardly exceptional in that regard.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#346

Post by Balgair » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 4:39 PM UTC

itsybitsy wrote: post #247

happyscrappy wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that doesn't happen with recent immigrants who do very well, some of them Africans.

The self-selected groups of recent immigrants are not a random sampling of their countries of origin [1]. 1. http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1814529?uid=2&uid=4&si...

Interesting! Great link, thank you.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#347

Post by benjaminmhaley » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 5:21 PM UTC

panglott wrote: post #329

benjaminmhaley wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why many middle eastern countries generate so many young angry jihadists This is akin to wondering why Europeans generated so many young angry crusaders. The term jihadists denotes a religion and a region. Its associated with Middle Eastern countries by definition. Angry young militants from other religions and regions are given different names. If we look at objective measurements of violence, like murder rate by…

Yes, but why Europe produced so many angry young crusaders is also an interesting question that touches on gender and family issues. IIRC the Norman practice of dividing an estate among all surviving sons led, after a few generations, to large populations of land-hungry armed horsemen on tiny estates. Thus the Normans exported mercenary and conquering armies all over Europe, starting with England through the Crusades…

I agree that it is interesting to wonder why certain cultures are more violent and militant than others. My points, more clearly:

1. That # of Jihadist does not indicate how violent and militant a culture is because it is not a cross-cultural term.

2. That cross cultural measures of murder rates do not indicate that the Middle East is home to particularly violent cultures.

3. That the Middle East is home to lots of military action, but that it is produced by foreign and local interests and can be explained by financial motives rather than cultural ones.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#348

Post by juliangregorian » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 6:28 PM UTC

foldr wrote: post #343

juliangregorian wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fine, but learn to Google http://www.dailypaul.com/327703/somewhat-disturbing-map-of-f... http://www.rferl.org/contentinfographics/foreign-fighters-sy...

I don't think you've looked very carefully at the graphic in the second article. You might want to compare the bar chart on the right against a list of countries in the Middle East. The Middle Eastern countries listed are: Bahrain, Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Yemen Of those, only Jordan and Saudi Arabia are contributing large numbers of fighters. On the whole, the Middle Eastern c…

Way to put words in my mouth. "Brown people" all over the world thank you for your brave service. I know what the Middle East is, jackass. Nowhere did I say that other parts of the world were not contributing large numbers of fighters. That's irrelevant to my original point. Way to massively ignore Iraq and Syria, too. Like, did you think you would just sneak that by somehow? The truth is, most Middle Eastern countries are contributing hundreds if not thousands of fighters, and you can't ignore that, no matter how all-caps you can type Belgium. Oh and the people in Belgium, France, UK, etc.? Middle Eastern expats (or their children), many of whom hold dual citizenship.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#349

Post by javert » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 6:28 PM UTC

innguest wrote: post #190

pyrocat wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is nothing white people can do to fix this. Well, except confronting our own biases, encouraging diverse hiring practices, confronting both overt and covert racism when we see it, educating ourselves on racial privilege, fighting racial profiling and sentencing in our justice system, and just in general fighting for racial equality.

You're a Cultural Marxism peddler. I am white and I think I am in the very same group as blacks and all other races, namely the group called "individuals". All we need to do is fight for individual rights and teach people respect is earned on an individual basis. Nothing can be assumed from group membership in real life; every leftist would agree with this statement, yet you want to make laws based on group membershi…

Thank you. This needed to be said, and it is all that needs to be said. You are being treated in a grossly unjust way by being downvoted.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#350

Post by javert » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 6:30 PM UTC

rokhayakebe wrote: post #216

javert wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US we had segregation, not apartheid. There is a difference. As a white man living in the South, we still have segregation in practice. I rarely had interaction with blacks because they did different things and took different classes at school. We all went to the same schools---just didn't have the same classes or have the same social circles. Not much shared in the way of culture. I have had some black friend…

Hi Javert, To fix something implies it does not work properly. When you say there is nothing white people can do to fix this, what is this broken "this" needing to be fixed? Edit: By the way I upvoted even though I think your line of thinking is incorrect, and that it intentionally contributes to the racial problem we face here. Edit2: I meant "un"intentionally. Sorry.

Black culture.

However, it doesn't really need to be fixed. All that needs to happen is for individuals to decide that they want to live rational, virtuous lives.

If you doubt that black culture preaches the opposite, listen to (modern) black music. (Or look at black incarcertaion rates.)

I say "modern" because much of the best American music was created by blacks. But that was a while ago.