Announcing the Surface 3 • Hacker News Board

Re: Announcing the Surface 3

#341

Post by WorldWideWayne » Fri, Apr 03, 2015, 7:15 PM UTC

joshuapants wrote: post #309

WorldWideWayne wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on how you work, so I disagree that you always lose the core functionality. I could totally go without the type cover if I wanted to because I just don't travel much. As a matter of fact, I think when the Surface Pro 4 comes out, I will not buy the type cover and take the savings instead. In any case, I really, really disagree that Microsoft is being sleazy by offering a choice. It's more like they're goin…

> I could totally go without the type cover if I wanted to because I just don't travel much. But also because you have another keyboard and don't mind forking over money for a docking station or plugging in. You're replacing the type cover with another keyboard, but that's still something you had to buy. > when the Surface Pro 4 comes out, I will not buy the type cover and take the savings instead Microsoft has annou…

> "The Tablet That Can Replace Your Laptop,"...the intended use case.

So, what is your point here? That they should always bundle the keyboard so that users like me have to pay $100 more every single time? I don't understand what your complaint is or what you think Microsoft is doing wrong.

From the reddit comment that you linked to from the Surface Team:

> "... and some people definitely wanted to buy without cover."

That's going to be me when I get the Surface Pro 4. I don't have a Surface Pro 3, so I don't already have a compatible Type Cover already.

If I buy one to replace my Dell Venue 8 Pro (which I use fully without a keyboard), I will not need a keyboard at all...and I still count it as a laptop replacement since I can (and do) everything that I could on a laptop by using the virtual keyboard. If buy one to replace my Surface Pro (1st gen), then I'm going to use a $30 full size keyboard when I'm sitting and the virtual keyboard when I'm walking around with it. So, I'm glad that they don't bundle the keyboard.

In any case, I just don't understand how anyone could possibly have a problem with this.

Re: Announcing the Surface 3

#342

Post by npunt » Sat, Apr 04, 2015, 12:25 AM UTC

tim333 wrote: post #336

npunt wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree, there's only two raw deals I see with your example: buying a 16GB model, and going to Best Buy. There were always 6 SKUs for any given region (3 size options and 2 connectivity), and now there are 3 colors, and the iPad Mini form factor. That's a lot when you add it all up analytically, but that's not how consumers experience it -- they're not presented with 36 different iPads and asked to fi…

>RAW DEAL #1: Storage, and specifically the 16GB model I've got a 16GB iPhone and am happy enough. It runs out of memory when I get to about 1000 pictures on the camera roll. I can live with that. Sure if you want hours of video get a bigger one.

Yeah, fair enough. Thanks for adding your experience. I was riffing off the idea of getting a 'raw deal', which to me means a) customer is unaware of what having 16GB means, and b) customer winds up using product for certain space-heavy things (e.g. video or lots of games).

There's a ton of people like you who know what 16GB space means and are happy to save the $, and a ton of people who don't use their iOS devices a lot, so for them its not as much a raw deal.

Re: Announcing the Surface 3

#343

Post by npunt » Sat, Apr 04, 2015, 1:10 AM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #328

npunt wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree, there's only two raw deals I see with your example: buying a 16GB model, and going to Best Buy. There were always 6 SKUs for any given region (3 size options and 2 connectivity), and now there are 3 colors, and the iPad Mini form factor. That's a lot when you add it all up analytically, but that's not how consumers experience it -- they're not presented with 36 different iPads and asked to fi…

You seem to be skipping over the part where the buyer chooses between the iPad Air and the iPad Air 2 (if they pick the big size) or between the iPad mini, iPad mini 2, or iPad mini 3 (if they pick the small size). That is the big problem in my eyes at the moment. Cellular radio, whatever, obvious choice for most. Colors, that's an easy customization, just pick what you like. But how do you pick between all those dif…

I definitely get what you're saying, and agree the iPad line is at least one product (original mini) too heavy. I didn't realize they still sold that thing, that's crazy.

There's a ton of segmentation going on in the iPad line. I think you've gone through the decision tree pretty well. To answer your question I think the last bit mostly comes down to a combination of price and what the retailer even has stocked and displayed - they may only have the latest one.

I agree the mini 2 and 3 are a little too close spec-wise. I think Apple is trying to figure out supply chain choices there, and the A7 is just a good chip that still has legs. I'd guess the consumer decision on that one would be if the consumer likes the form factor and wants the latest, they choose the 3, and if they look a bit more into it and find the 2 is just lacking fingerprint and they don't care, they choose 2. Most people aren't pouring over specs, and may not even know the 3 has the same guts as the 2.

More generally though, having this year's and last year's model in both form factors makes sense for price segmentation. It's doubly good for business as it clears out the supply chain, and it even suggests to purchasers that older products will be supported so you can have confidence in your purchase.

Re: Announcing the Surface 3

#344

Post by npunt » Sat, Apr 04, 2015, 1:17 AM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #304

npunt wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree, there's only two raw deals I see with your example: buying a 16GB model, and going to Best Buy. There were always 6 SKUs for any given region (3 size options and 2 connectivity), and now there are 3 colors, and the iPad Mini form factor. That's a lot when you add it all up analytically, but that's not how consumers experience it -- they're not presented with 36 different iPads and asked to fi…

RE: The Zenbook How do companies not get this? Don't call it the Zenbook [Impossible Number]. Call it the damn Zenbook and be done with it. No one cares that its part of the UX300 line, because UX300 means nothing, and you're only going to have three computers in the UX line anyway before you discontinue it. But you know why they do that? Price matching. They can sell a SKU on Amazon for $700 and sell the exact same…

Good point about the price matching SKU nonsense. Sucks for Asus to be in a position that pits them against their customers. Not a game worth playing!

Re: Announcing the Surface 3

#345

Post by Raptor22 » Sun, Apr 05, 2015, 8:37 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #329

Corrado wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe hardware manufacturers should do like car companies do and use a model year. "Yea, I have a MacBook Pro 2015 but its about the same as my Surface Pro 2017".

That's actually how Apple does it. For example, the official names of the various Mac Pro models are "Mac Pro (Late 2013)," "Mac Pro (Mid 2012)," etc. It's a bit confusing because they don't show the year part prominently, so you have to do some legwork to figure out what you're buying or what you already have, but it works out OK.

I think you can find this in About this Mac.