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Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

teslamotors.com

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Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#341

Post by n09n »

repsilat wrote: post #335
seunosewa wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Politicians will counter that gas taxes are unpalatable for political reasons What does that mean (in plain language)? Why should people accept it as an excuse for not choosing the more efficient solution?

It isn't about what people should accept, it's about what they will accept. Voters aren't rational, and they're more likely to kick up a fuss about fuel taxes than vehicle taxes because it affects more of them in the short term. Maybe taxes on vehicles are more likely to be passed, and not much worse than taxes on fuel. In that case they may be worthwhile as a compromise solution. They're certainly not a better solut…

Voters also don't make laws directly, exactly for this reason.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#342

Post by Xylakant »

Crito wrote: post #318
Xylakant wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact: The Beetle was originally designed by Ferdinand Porsche, so you'd even drive a "real" Porsche in both cases.

Not to mention that 911s look like smooshed Beetles anyway. I kid, I kid...

That's not much of a coincidence: The 911 is actually a fairly old design (early 1960s) and the follow up to the Porsche 356 [1] where the similarity is even more striking. They are also from a technical point of view fairly similar: Both have an air-cooled boxer engine in the back which certainly influences the design. There's also the "Berlin-Rom-Wagen" [2], a sports version of the beetle which was built for a planned long distance race from Berlin to Rome. It already looks very much like the Porsche 356. So the history of the two cars is actually quite mixed up.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_356

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_64

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#344

Post by stefk0 »

zobzu wrote: post #324
ghshephard wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to clarify for any europeans who might have read this, ""speed limit+9mph" informal rule " - is a rule (at least in California) for what your minimum speed on the freeway/highway should politely be. Anybody traveling slower than this needs to be in the slower right lanes to avoid getting tailgated or inspiring road rage. I've often wondered if anybody traveling at (or just over) the speed limit on the freeway ha…

I'm european and i can tell you that you will get tailgated, headlight-flashed and all around road-raged if you drive at the speed limit in the left-most highway lane in EVERY SINGLE EU country. You won't get pulled by cops tho.

so true

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#345

Post by fexl »

grellas wrote: post #211

Paternalistic meddling with free consumer choices is always fraught with peril. Sometimes it is necessary to protect important principles in society. You can't discriminate based on race - that limits choice but who would support the contrary? You can't defraud people in selling products - ditto. You can't buy land to build a smokestack plant in a quiet residential neighborhood - ditto. Many other examples might be c…

"You can't discriminate based on race - that limits choice but who would support the contrary?"

If someone refuses to serve or otherwise interact with me on account of my race, I would not use the threat of deadly force to change his behavior, nor would I advocate that anyone else do that on my behalf.

That is not to say that I approve of racial discrimination, or that I would do absolutely nothing about it. I am only stating what I would not do about it.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#346

Post by noisyboy »

pravda wrote: post #328
bane wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the right way to think about it. Taxes are only a small portion of the economic activity a bunch of car dealerships in a state generate. A dealer gets to keep some of that profit margin that Tesla gets 100% of right now. They then pay the dealership owner (1 job), the receptionist (2 jobs), the finance guy (3 jobs) and pay the commission to the sales guy (4 jobs) and then you bring back the car to the repa…

Your fallacy is... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window

But in this case the amount (it is also time/frustration but lets keep it simple) I would save due to not having to deal with shitty car dealerships is x times lower than what I'll spend on the EV due to its much higher cost. Granted it is a better car etc., but from the point of view of the above argument, I'm not left with 6 francs I could spend on other things; I just spent 36 francs on the EV and am short of 30 francs I could save on other things. Of course if you can say that the additional taxes Tesla will pay due to this will go around/trickle down etc. but I think from NJ politician's point of view, that is a much longer/circuitous route compared to be seen as saving local accountant/receptionist jobs (which is attractive from election/vote point of view).

To be clear, I'm not supporting the move. EVs are the future and the sooner we embrace them the better. Just trying to see it in the light of the argument made above.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#347

Post by jonknee »

bane wrote: post #303
jonknee wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So now none of the money or jobs stay in NJ... I don't see the logic. If they wanted the tax money they would want Tesla to sell a lot of cars in NJ.

That's not the right way to think about it. Taxes are only a small portion of the economic activity a bunch of car dealerships in a state generate. A dealer gets to keep some of that profit margin that Tesla gets 100% of right now. They then pay the dealership owner (1 job), the receptionist (2 jobs), the finance guy (3 jobs) and pay the commission to the sales guy (4 jobs) and then you bring back the car to the repa…

> A dealer gets to keep some of that profit margin that Tesla gets 100% of right now. They then pay the dealership owner (1 job), the receptionist (2 jobs), the finance guy (3 jobs) and pay the commission to the sales guy (4 jobs) and then you bring back the car to the repair center manager (5 jobs) the mechanic (6 jobs) the car wash guy (7 jobs). There's also the sales tax on the car + the income tax for those 4 people + the consumption taxes on those people as they go about their daily lives. All those people then go out in the local economy and eat pizza and do whatever other local economic activity people do with their money. Which also generates more jobs.

Other than the dealer keeping the profit all of those jobs and people would be in NJ if there was a Telsa dealership in NJ. Now there won't be and those jobs won't exist.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#349

Post by jodrellblank »

batoure wrote: post #209
sp332 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is the changelog: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showwiki.php?title=Model%20S%... These changes sound worthwhile to me, even if the mechanism is creepy.

Also just think; how long did it take for the first iphone jailbreaks to come out, cydia for your car. Alternately replaceable ROM's for your car a la android. Where there is a closed eco system there are 100 people just staring at their computers until they figure out how to break it wide open.

cydia for your car.

Just what my car is missing, fifty thousand anime ringtones and a SNES emulator with all-you-can-eat ROMs.

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