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Popcorn Time – Watch torrent movies instantly

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Re: Popcorn Time – Watch torrent movies instantly

#341

Post by freyr »

smokeyj wrote: post #235
Zikes wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference between taking a taxi and walking are significant. For your analogy to work you must alter it in one of two ways: 1. You hijack the taxi and demand the driver take you to your destination for free. This creates an equivalent or better experience for the consumer at zero or near-zero cost. 2. Instead of clicking a button and watching 12 Years a Slave, you get a crudely animated version pieced together b…

The reason I think my analogy applies is because "pirating" costs cameramen nothing. You can measure their net worth before and after I pirate a movie and it will be the same. The same is not true of bumming a taxi ride.

"pirating" costs cameramen nothing.

If only one person thinks that way, and pirates a movie, your statement holds true.

If 1,000 people think that way, it probably still holds true.

Extending this, however, you reach an obvious tipping point, where a critical mass of people pirate the movie and the production costs are not recouped (and the cameraman is out of work and his children starve in the street).

It's the logical conclusion of your line of thinking. What if everybody believed pirating the movies they want to watch will not affect the cameramen. What if nobody paid for the movies they're watching? Obviously, high-budget movies would no longer be possible, and we'd all be reduced to watching shoe-string-budget art house shlock (I know, I know... Primer).

Obviously, that is not sustainable. So what makes you special? Why should you not pay for the movie you're watching, while other people should foot the bill?

Re: Popcorn Time – Watch torrent movies instantly

#342

Post by quadrangle »

quasque wrote: post #147
quadrangle wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean for SHARING. It seems somewhat unethical to try to say that people interested in sharing are "pirates".

It depends what they are sharing. Sharing copyrighted works without the authorization of the copyright holder is the common definition of piracy. In which case, how is it unethical (as you say) to equate the two?

Because "piracy" is a slur that equates sharing to attacking ships and stealing cargo and threatening or even killing people.

The implication in copyright-infringement = piracy is that when you share something, you are an aggressor actively attacking the copyright holder. It's complete garbage and shouldn't be tolerated. Sharing is the complete opposite motivation from stealing. We want to encourage sharing and oppose stealing. Trying to equate them is ludicrous.

Re: Popcorn Time – Watch torrent movies instantly

#343

Post by a8000 »

Zikes wrote: post #331
nightski wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if the movie wasn't worth any money to said person in the first place, then maybe it isn't such a big loss. Maybe some just do not value cinema entertainment very much even though they may watch a movie.

Absolutely. Certainly the hypothetical cameraman has no inherent right to be paid to do whatever they want to do, I only assert that the so-called utopian pirate market is incapable of sustaining cinema without drastic changes to the business. Not to say those changes aren't currently necessary, only that if everyone chose to pirate rather than pay then all of Hollywood would likely just shut down rather than keep th…

Hollywood shutting down would not be a huge loss to the world. Movies of cultural value could still be funded and then be made available to the public.

Re: Popcorn Time – Watch torrent movies instantly

#344

Post by quadrangle »

JPKab wrote: post #144
quadrangle wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it should not be so easy to benefit from someone else's hard work without compensating them. Nonsense. I benefit from the work of Mozart and feel no need to compensate anyone. There are real issues with funding mechanisms and creative work in a shareable digital world, but we can reject the idea that you should always pay for anything that is beneficial. If you want to give gifts to creative folks you like, you can…

I'm a left of center guy, but this kind of thinking is a very ugly slippery slope. Its not that anyone should always expect to pay for things that are beneficial, its the fact that people who very recently WORKED to create the very thing you are benefiting from should be PAID for their work. If everyone followed your logic, we wouldn't have 12 Years A Slave. The props cost money. The costumes cost money. The cameras…

I never said that people who make movies shouldn't be paid. The point is simple: however we figure out funding movie creation, doing so by making sure nobody ever benefits without paying is definitely the wrong approach.

Re: Popcorn Time – Watch torrent movies instantly

#345

Post by a8000 »

freyr wrote: post #338
steveklabnik wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While infinite other people are able to also use the same taxi.

Sure, and infinite other people screw the driver. Oh, I suppose some people will pay the posted fare for their ride. As long as it doesn't have to be us, right?

The point is that digital copies cost (almost) nothing, so by standard market principles you would not expect to pay something.

Re: Popcorn Time – Watch torrent movies instantly

#346

Post by quadrangle »

quadrangle wrote: post #116
cheez wrote: post #101

I clicked "12 years a slave", a movie I have not yet had an opportunity to watch and it started streaming in less than a minute in high quality. I immediately quit the application as it should not be so easy to benefit from someone else's hard work without compensating them. Please, movie people, let me pay for this. You might kill the cinemas, but you'll still get paid.

> it should not be so easy to benefit from someone else's hard work without compensating them. Nonsense. I benefit from the work of Mozart and feel no need to compensate anyone. There are real issues with funding mechanisms and creative work in a shareable digital world, but we can reject the idea that you should always pay for anything that is beneficial. If you want to give gifts to creative folks you like, you can…

Hahahaha. The responses to my comment are hilariously off-the-wall. All I said was that the reasoning in the OP was wrong. The reason to pay for movies has nothing to do with the idea that benefits should always have a price.

That's all I said. The rest of my comment acknowledged that the economics and funding for movies is complex.

All the copyright apologists are so defensive, it's absurd. It's like you can't accept dropping any of your arguments, even when they are pointed out as plainly wrong. You are so worried that your whole case is ill-founded and won't be able to keep your position if you accept any criticism at all.

There might actually be some valid points on the pro-copyright side, but we don't get to see them if you keep defending the obviously invalid arguments…

Re: Popcorn Time – Watch torrent movies instantly

#348

Post by meowface »

anjc wrote: post #303
meowface wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All those are answered on the website's FAQ.

Thanks. Edit: Wait a second, none of them are answered! Unless i'm looking at a different FAQ

Yeah, now that I look at it, looks like you're right. Most of the questions are answered elsewhere in this thread, though.

Re: Popcorn Time – Watch torrent movies instantly

#349

Post by chrismcb »

quadrangle wrote: post #116
cheez wrote: post #101

I clicked "12 years a slave", a movie I have not yet had an opportunity to watch and it started streaming in less than a minute in high quality. I immediately quit the application as it should not be so easy to benefit from someone else's hard work without compensating them. Please, movie people, let me pay for this. You might kill the cinemas, but you'll still get paid.

> it should not be so easy to benefit from someone else's hard work without compensating them. Nonsense. I benefit from the work of Mozart and feel no need to compensate anyone. There are real issues with funding mechanisms and creative work in a shareable digital world, but we can reject the idea that you should always pay for anything that is beneficial. If you want to give gifts to creative folks you like, you can…

Except that Mozart had ALREADY benefited from his work. But today many people feel they are entitled to watching movies and listening to music for free. The problem is that quality movies and music are expensive to produce. And rather have one person pay for them, they split the cost up over a lot of people. But if no one chooses to pay, these movies (that people apparently WANT) will no longer be produced.

Re: Popcorn Time – Watch torrent movies instantly

#350

Post by freyr »

a8000 wrote: post #345
freyr wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and infinite other people screw the driver. Oh, I suppose some people will pay the posted fare for their ride. As long as it doesn't have to be us, right?

The point is that digital copies cost (almost) nothing, so by standard market principles you would not expect to pay something.

I understand the reasoning, but I believe it is flawed for two reasons:

First, you're confusing the cost of distribution with the total cost of creating media. While digitization has driven down distribution costs, it doesn't affect the tens or hundreds of millions of dollars that a typical movie costs to produce. Just because you can download a movie from a server to your laptop for free, does the cost suddenly cost nothing to produce? Of course not.

Second, the scenario we're discussing does not reflect traditional free markets. Conventionally, a seller offers a product or service, and if the seller and a buyer agree on a price, there's an exchange. Basic supply and demand.

Technology now allows buyers to set the price of certain services to zero against the wishes of the seller, and the seller is powerless to stop the transaction. Clearly, this is not a conventional free market scenario, and we may need new principles.

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