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Larry Page addresses PRISM

googleblog.blogspot.com

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Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#341

Post by aiiane »

greyman wrote: post #308
aiiane wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's hedged with a limitation of scale. Obviously Google, like any other company, is going to provide information on much smaller scales (e.g. a user or a handful of users) for investigation based on specific court-issued warrants. It would be lying to state that Google never provides information about any user activity at all. What would you prefer Google to say?

In this sentence, I would prefer Google to say: "First, we have not joined any program that would give the U.S. government—or any other government— OR ANY OTHER ENTITY - direct OR INDIRECT OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF access to our servers. [capitalized words are mine]

Except that that would be untrue, because there are perfectly legitimate reasons why the government would have access to data on a small scale - e.g. subpoenaing an individual's records in a specific criminal trial.

Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#342

Post by chime »

zmmmmm wrote: post #326
chime wrote: post #63

I don't want any more fluff "no direct access" emails. I just want these questions to be answered with a YES/NO: 1. Is there any way that someone outside of Google, can get a copy of an email I sent from my gmail to my own gmail, without a warrant that specifies my exact gmail address? 2. If I delete my Google search history, is there any way for anyone to access this history, with or without a warrant? 3. If I make…

You're asking very broad questions with only negative (ie: unprovable) answers. I don't think any company could ever say there is "no" way anybody can every get your search history after you delete it.They don't immediately run out and shred all the hard drives storing your data every time you delete something. Data would always be recoverable with some extreme amount of effort.

What about Q1?

Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#343

Post by eduardordm »

Matt_Cutts wrote: post #123

Personally, I'm really glad that Google published such a clear, plain-spoken post to tackle this issue head on. This whole issue makes me want to donate a bunch of money to the EFF. If anyone else feels the same way, you can donate to the EFF here: https://supporters.eff.org/donate and I believe a lot of employers will match contributions.

I'm sorry, but google's response was demagogical at best (what does 'direct access' even means!??!). In many countries the judiciary would already be in the case and the head of those companies (which didn't provide 'direct access' but there is obviously something happening) would have a lot of explanation to do.

Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#344

Post by [deleted] »

Matt_Cutts wrote: post #123

Personally, I'm really glad that Google published such a clear, plain-spoken post to tackle this issue head on. This whole issue makes me want to donate a bunch of money to the EFF. If anyone else feels the same way, you can donate to the EFF here: https://supporters.eff.org/donate and I believe a lot of employers will match contributions.

[deleted]

Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#346

Post by macchina »

gibsonf1 wrote: post #329
Dove wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy it. What I quoted above doesn't say anything about US persons or non-US persons, about content or metadata, about this law or that one. It just says, Any suggestion that Google is disclosing information about our users’ Internet activity on such a scale is completely false. Now, Page may well be lying , but he definitely isn't weaseling. I'm pretty sure that denial covers both of the possibilities you're…

The key issue here is that Google and the other companies may have no idea this is going on. My read is that the NSA has managed to gain access to the data centers either through inside help, spy craft, hardware/router back doors, or some other means we have no idea about.

It's hard for me to believe they could access to the data centers without Google's knowledge.

Isn't it more plausible that they're intercepting data flowing in and out of Google servers?

Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#349

Post by icambron »

This is absolutely crammed with weasel wording. With notes:

First, we have not joined [Maybe you didn't "join", but instead merely participated in?] any program that would give the U.S. government—or any other government—direct access [How about indirect access? What is "direct access", anyway?] to our servers [The reporting suggests the NSA provided some hardware. So I guess it's not your servers, huh?]. Indeed, the U.S. government does not have direct access [There's that weird term again] or a “back door” [With quotes. Nice.] to the information stored in our data centers. We had not heard of a program called PRISM until yesterday [This one is especially bad. Apparently the NSA didn't tell them the program was called 'PRISM'?]

Second, we provide user data to governments only in accordance with the law [Note that the government also claims this program is in accordance with the law]. Our legal team reviews each and every request [What's the scope of a request?], and frequently pushes back when requests are overly broad or don’t follow the correct process. Press reports that suggest that Google is providing open-ended access to our users’ data [Not what the reports are suggesting] are false, period. Until this week’s reports, we had never heard of the broad type of order that Verizon received—an order that appears to have required them to hand over millions of users’ call records [Which is wholly unrelated to PRISM and Google.]. We were very surprised to learn that such broad orders exist. Any suggestion that Google is disclosing information about our users’ Internet activity on such a scale is completely false [Such a scale being what, exactly? All of your users' data?].

Note what it doesn't answer:

Does Google provide data to the NSA?

Does the NSA have resources in Google data centers?

Does Google know what these reports about the NSA spying on our Google accounts are all about?

It really doesn't answer those. Lame.

Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#350

Post by GoodIntentions »

Matt_Cutts wrote: post #257
mullingitover wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's exactly the kind of denial you'd expect them to issue if they were legally required to deny any involvement.

Really? You don't see any difference between the denial posted by Google's CEO vs. the way that (say) Verizon responded? Here's Verizon's response: http://www.businessinsider.com/verizons-memo-to-workers-abou...

The last couple lines of his blog post seemed to convey, at least to me, that he was posting truth but perhaps not as much as he'd like.

"We post this information on our Transparency Report whenever possible... ...we understand that the U.S. and other governments need to take action to protect their citizens’ safety—including sometimes by using surveillance. But the level of secrecy around the current legal procedures undermines the freedoms we all cherish."

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