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US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

washingtonpost.com

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Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#341

Post by adventured »

infrec wrote: post #231
haroldp wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems odd to claim both that: - This government program is widely hated - We have a functioning democracy

The US is a republic.

Was a Republic. I think it could be argued that the US is no longer fully governed by the Constitution. The only debate, in my opinion, is when the Republic died. When Nixon killed the last part of the gold standard, unleashing perpetual war, and nearly unlimited funding for the military industrial complex (including the NSA / CIA / FBI) by printing / Federal Reserve financing? The 1930s when FDR massively expanded the reach of the Federal Government? 2001 under Bush? 1913 with the founding of the Federal Reserve?

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#342

Post by philwelch »

frisco wrote: post #130

I think it's interesting to ask why these programs are so widely hated. These are national security assets: evidence gathered here will never be used in a drug case, or a tax evasion case. Why not? These tools exist for the bigger fish: the dozens of Soviet-era nuclear weapons believed to be missing, or the small amounts of dangerous pathogens that periodically vanish from research labs. These are what the government…

> It's important to remember that we still have a functioning democracy. If you -- Hacker News reader -- decided to run for congress tomorrow, you might not win, but you won't be killed, sabotaged, or secretly blocked. While some individual politicans may be corrupt, the system broadly is not.

If I, the Hacker News reader, decided to run for Congress tomorrow, I would run against an incumbent whose district has been gerrymandered to statistically guarantee his reelection and whose colleagues in the House can distribute nationally-raised money to in case that's not enough of a guarantee.

If I, the Hacker News reader, voted for a guy who spoke convincingly in favor of civil liberties and against warrantless wiretapping, I would have discovered that once he was elected, he had been lying to me all along.

If I, the Hacker News reader, ever gained enough power and influence to really affect things, who's to say I won't be found dead? For all the public knows, I could have been killed by any lone gunman, just like Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, or John or Bobby Kennedy. Then I just turn into a harmless, martyred caricature rather than as a living, thinking human being--nothing subversive there.

If we still have a functioning democracy, then try and convince the people that there's nothing to fear from these kinds of programs. If the NSA has nothing to hide, it has nothing to fear.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#344

Post by jw_ »

einhverfr wrote: post #260
frisco wrote: post #130

I think it's interesting to ask why these programs are so widely hated. These are national security assets: evidence gathered here will never be used in a drug case, or a tax evasion case. Why not? These tools exist for the bigger fish: the dozens of Soviet-era nuclear weapons believed to be missing, or the small amounts of dangerous pathogens that periodically vanish from research labs. These are what the government…

> I think it's interesting to ask why these programs are so widely hated. Well as someone with a history degree let me explain.... > These are national security assets: evidence gathered here will never be used in a drug case, or a tax evasion case. Why not? These tools exist for the bigger fish: the dozens of Soviet-era nuclear weapons believed to be missing, or the small amounts of dangerous pathogens that periodic…

This comment really does an excellent job of articulating why this sort of surveillance is a bad thing. I find it really frustrating when people question why we'd want to prevent the government from having unlimited ability to spy on the citizenry - because it's been tried before countless times and it generally doesn't go so well. The fact that we're able to do it even more efficiently than ever should make people more concerned, not less.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#345

Post by philwelch »

infrec wrote: post #231
haroldp wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems odd to claim both that: - This government program is widely hated - We have a functioning democracy

The US is a republic.

Yes; a democratic republic, to be precise.

Non-democratic republics include 18th-century USA, where only white male landowners could vote. Democratic non-republics include the UK, which is a monarchy. "Republicanism" and "democracy" are orthogonal concepts.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#346

Post by randall »

yurisagalov wrote: post #98
randall wrote: post #47

Is there a way to run AeroFS on AWS or something? So it's possible to store files encrypted, but with as simple syncing as Dropbox?

Yes :-) http://blog.aerofs.com/479/s3-for-team-server

I was going to ask you on FB, but then thought more people would probably care here. :P

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#348

Post by theflyingkiwi42 »

eclipxe wrote: post #165
sologoub wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As many have stated, the problem is with inevitable abuse of power. It may or may not be happening now, but it will. Recent IRS disclosure that they targeted Tea Party-linked organizations for audits is one example. I doubt it was deliberately ordered by the administration, but someone, somewhere thought it was a good idea. Search queries alone will probably tell you which way a person is leaning in an election. That…

Tea party groups weren't targeted for audits. Groups that applied for tax exempt status on basis of providing social welfare were sent for additional screening to ensure the group was not primarily a political group. There were over 300 applications sent for additional screening. 1/3 were conservative groups. 1/3 were liberal. The whole problem was the selection criteria for being reviewed - based on the name of the…

Where does your 1/3 liberal come from? I cannot find that anywhere. You are corrected they were not targeted for AUDITS, but they were targeted.

It is not just the problem that they were targeted based on name (I actually think that's pretty reasonable) but the questions that were asked, the time it took to get approved (or denied) and the fact that IRS lied to congress about it.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#349

Post by philwelch »

greedo wrote: post #199
sneak wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are legally required, personally and individually, to lie about the existence of these programs, or go to prison instantly. These orders are gag-ordered by default.

I doubt that Steve Jobs or Ballmer would "go to prison instantly" if they had disclosed the existence of these programs. Yes, they might have been prosecuted under statute, but they wouldn't vanish. In fact, the high visibility of Brin, Jobs, Ballmer etc would probably have been a deterrent against prosecution. Can you imagine the outrage if Jobs came out with a statement saying that the NSA was requiring that Apple…

If you're going to build something like PRISM because the ends justify the means, is prison really going to be the only thing you threaten people with?

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#350

Post by philwelch »

epoxyhockey wrote: post #111
Zoepfli wrote: post #13

I just emailed Tim Cook that imho iCloud is dead. He is welcome to add options to use my own cloud storage while using clientside encryption, and I might reconsider. You're welcome to send him your opinion as well. It's tcook@youknowntherest.

Apple demonstrated that resistance is possible, for reasons unknown, when it held out for more than five years I'm pretty sure that unknown reason was Steve Jobs. Apple became a participant 1 year after Tim Cook took the helm.

Almost makes you want to question the "liver cancer" story.
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