Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep • Hacker News Board

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#341

Post by VMG » Wed, May 15, 2013, 7:51 AM UTC

run4yourlives wrote: post #259

VMG wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget the moral hazard. Women could choose to get a child instead of working. I personally don't think that it is a good idea to grow up in a family where no adult is gainfully employed. These are complex issues and should be evaluated by each individual. You have different criteria than I and should have every right to donate your income to causes you see as worthy. If I was interested in reducing US crime an…

>Women could choose to get a child instead of working. This is a fallacy. A woman working is not going to "choose" this any more than you are going to go from being gainfully employed to sitting on your ass all day playing video games. Setting the right thresholds on both the income and the reductions removes any incentive to become a non-working drag on society. If however, you did make that choice, a basic income a…

> We do have every right to choose where our taxes go. They're called elections.

That just means that others decide what happens to my money.

> However, considering that your wealth was entirely derived from the society at large

This is just a false assertion. My wealth is derived from my work.

> That's why I contribute to a collective fund and then hire managers to disperse said dollars with an eye to betterment of society as a whole.

You also force everybody else to do the same. Those altruistic managers then spend the money on foreign wars and bailouts.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#342

Post by DanBC » Wed, May 15, 2013, 7:52 AM UTC

porker wrote: post #334

DanBC wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is where do people live in Europe if they have no personal funds to buy or rent housing? Do they live in housing operated by some unit of government, or where? The English benefit system is complex. Here's an attempt to describe some of it. We pay a national insurance. Some of our benefits are based on contributions you make. Other benefits are income related (means-tested.) If you have a mortgage and lose your job…

Thanks, that's the clearest explanation I've seen of our system. And what a mess it is! I am personally in favour of the bedroom tax, so it'd be good to hear why this is horrible (I'm sure there are edge cases I've not thought of). Completely agree about housing benefit being a horrifically inefficient system. I was talking to a person who deals with people on housing benefit yesterday, about the number who lie about…

You're right, it's just a few edge cases that make the bedroom tax horrible.

The theory is that people are over accommodated, and should move to more appropriate housing. But moving home is expensive, and these people by definition don't have much money.

I haven't seen evidence that moving these people around will make any difference to the housing shortage.

But yes, it's a good idea.

Housing benefits for cohabiting / single people is weird. Ann and Bob live in separate flats and get full benefits each. They move into a flat together, and as a couple they get less than either of them was getting singly. That system is wrong, I think.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#343

Post by gpvos » Wed, May 15, 2013, 8:03 AM UTC

greghinch wrote: post #192

zacharycohn wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It is part of the maturation process and realize that the world is not a fair place, and no not everybody is equal and will live equally." I think the point of the article is that that's fucked up, and not how the world should be. And what I suspect the author realized is that it isn't the way he or she wants to be.

> I think the point of the article is that that's fucked up, and not how the world should be. That's the maturation process though: understanding that the world has been that way for all time . Look at nature, around you, some animals within any given group always do better than others. It's fine to be bothered by it, and want to do something to change it, but it's naive to think that a) you are the first person to n…

> the world has been that way for all time.

(I'm not an expert on this, but as far as I know) many traditional/"primitive" societies have much less problems with homelessness and mental disorders because of stronger family support. (Of course, they have other problems that we don't have.)

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#344

Post by scotty79 » Wed, May 15, 2013, 8:05 AM UTC

onemorepassword wrote: post #198

With the exception of a very small sub group of people with serious mental issues, it's not a hard problem . Most of it has been solved already. It's just a matter of having the will to do it. That will is absent. Most developers in SF laugh at the amount of money their European counterparts get paid after taxes. The don't consider not having to step over homeless people a "benefit". That attitude is your problem rig…

I'm quite amazed how nasty living environments rich people can bear. If I were to bet I'd swore that rich would do something about the poor before it gets anywhere near as bad as in US. But then again there's India. So I stand corrected.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#345

Post by bmmayer1 » Wed, May 15, 2013, 8:21 AM UTC

nawitus wrote: post #281

tokenadult wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having moved from the U.S. to northern Germany I'd really love to learn about what is actually done in Europe. Where is a "mentally unstable" person to be found in Germany? If a "San Francisco-style lunatic" (like the one you saw in public in Germany) is encountered out in public in Germany, where is he put? P.S. I have adequate reading knowledge of German to be able to read German-language links about what is done f…

>I'd really love to learn about what is actually done in Europe. Where is a "mentally unstable" person to be found in Germany? If a "San Francisco-style lunatic" (like the one you saw in public in Germany) is encountered out in public in Germany, where is he put? Some notes about the Finnish system: There are plenty of psychiatric hospitals where most mentally ill people are (those who are not cared by their parents…

>> "that they pay for themselves (through social security)"

Lulz Europe.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#346

Post by bmmayer1 » Wed, May 15, 2013, 8:22 AM UTC

temphn wrote: post #241

tokenadult wrote: post #162

Places with good weather have huge visible homeless populations. (I have traveled all over the United States, and have been to all fifty states. AFTER EDIT: I have been in, and have lived in, gritty "skid row" neighborhoods of large United States cities, and have lived in Los Angeles.) Places with lousy weather, like the place where I grew up and now live, certainly have people who are "homeless" in the sense of not…

Places with good weather have huge visible homeless populations Singapore has great weather and no visible homeless population. The government there generally keeps mentally ill people off the streets.

And one of the freest (read: least regulated) economies in the world. Makes you think.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#347

Post by bmmayer1 » Wed, May 15, 2013, 8:24 AM UTC

dominostars wrote: post #230

San Francisco homelessness is not a question about rich vs. poor. It's a question about what to do with people who are mentally handicapped and/or drug abusers. This is partially a money problem, but it's largely a social problem. A lot of other countries deal with this better because they have stronger family support structures. Programming can help, but this isn't a programming problem. And there's no money in it,…

As a matter of fact, many Europeans I've met in the US have moved here to get away from "these social programs" which are strangling their economies and destroying opportunity. Come to think of it, most Europeans I've met in Europe are trying to leave, also.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#348

Post by bmmayer1 » Wed, May 15, 2013, 8:31 AM UTC

onemorepassword wrote: post #189

jrochkind1 wrote: post #4

The guy's Scottish, he thinks it's about San Fran specifically, it's really about AMERICA. Maybe San Fran puts it even more in your face. But compared to most any other country even half as rich as America, the lack of social safety net in the U.S. is kind of shocking. People in Europe don't really realize the extent of it.

We're very well aware of the extent of the situation in the US. It's been a long time since Europeans lined up to emigrate to America. Also, ironically enough, most Northern Europeans would already consider the circumstances of the underprivileged in Scotland unacceptable... The bad parts of Glasgow are considered the most horrible places in Western Europe. And the people there have housing, healthcare and access to…

I dunno. Feel like that's not the case for a lot of very talented Europeans, many of whom I've met in my multiple trips there and unanimously want to emigrate to the US. They certainly aren't the "give us your tired, your poor" immigrants anymore, but I get the sense there's a real sense of economic stagnation there. I've only been to Europe about 25 times, but you get a sense of it pretty well. But you seem to be European, what do you think?

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#349

Post by scotty79 » Wed, May 15, 2013, 8:41 AM UTC

bmmayer1 wrote: post #347

dominostars wrote: post #230

San Francisco homelessness is not a question about rich vs. poor. It's a question about what to do with people who are mentally handicapped and/or drug abusers. This is partially a money problem, but it's largely a social problem. A lot of other countries deal with this better because they have stronger family support structures. Programming can help, but this isn't a programming problem. And there's no money in it,…

As a matter of fact, many Europeans I've met in the US have moved here to get away from "these social programs" which are strangling their economies and destroying opportunity. Come to think of it, most Europeans I've met in Europe are trying to leave, also.

You probably are strongly opinionated and people you meet are strongly biased subset of Europeans. I personally know no one that would want to live in US. Even the entrepreneurial types. They are aware about rampant litigation, exorbitant costs of even simplest medical procedures that is reflected in costs of health insurance and sheer volume of US tax code. I knew one person though, who went to US to buy some goods and smuggle them back without paying customs and VAT.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#350

Post by bmmayer1 » Wed, May 15, 2013, 8:42 AM UTC

beat wrote: post #49

regis wrote: post #44

One thing that I think is missing from these discussions about the homeless in SF is: many of these people do not want to be rent-paying members of society and even if there was housing for them, some might still prefer their current lifestyle. Many people still view that lifestyle choice as unacceptable because it challenges the typical goals of someone working hard for a 'better' life. I don't think the question sh…

I don't think anyone actually PREFERS to be homeless, except for a few exotics. Most of the homeless in America are that way due to either a: unfortunate economic circumstances, or b: mental illness that precludes normal social functioning.

In SF this is definitely not an assumption you should make. Talk to some people around Haight St. http://blog.priceonomics.com/post/43085729257/the-street-kid...