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U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

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Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#341

Post by boelboel »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #106
boelboel wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I wonder where all these HNers work. The majority of "slightly below top companies" seem to consist of mediocre workers, which is fine. Employees are just doing their job and if they fuck up, even badly, it's not too difficult for them to get a new job. Meanwhile a student getting a few subpar grades, often for reasons beyond their control, should somehow be punished forever.

>Employees are just doing their job and if they fuck up, even badly, it's not too difficult for them to get a new job. This might be news to many people. Or do you mean it’s not too difficult to get a new job at Walmart?

If they had experience at good companies I think the odds are better than the student getting into a good university after fucking up some classes.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#342

Post by naasking »

Uncle_Brumpus wrote: post #224
naasking wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's less certain about modern environments compared to past ones?

I definitely didn't have to wonder if my career choice would be invalidated by AI by the time I graduate.

No, in the past you just had the possibility of childhood illness and death, the death of siblings, war, famine, drought, none of which are real problems for university students these days.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#343

Post by ryandrake »

alephnerd wrote: post #185
ungreased0675 wrote: post #175

The University of Michigan has around a 15% acceptance rate. How is it possible that they’re letting in kids who aren’t ready to do college level work? What are they selecting for?

Do you know what it takes to get admitted into Mich tier programs in 2026? Kids will take multiple APs (taking 10+ isn't unheard of, and in a lot of high schools is expected), do multiple extracurriculars (debate, MUN, DECA sports, academic olympiads, theatre), volunteering (NHS, CSF, etc), and even take college classes in high school. On top of that while tests are optional, most students still submit their SAT and…

> Heck, with my profile from the late 2000s and early 2010s (right when everything became hyper-competitive and optimized), I actually wouldn't have a shot at most programs at Mich let alone my Alma mater

You're right about this one. I'd never get accepted today at the state university I went to back in the 90s. Back then, applying to college meant taking the SAT, filling out an application, and maybe submitting an essay. That was it. Then you figured out how you'd pay for it. They didn't care that much about AP courses, extracurricular activities, career shadowing, volunteering, college level credits, or anything like that. Sure, they were nice bonuses but nobody treated them as hard requirements like they do today. Hell, my high school didn't even offer AP courses, so I couldn't take one even if I wanted to.

Now, my kid is approaching college age, and all these college admissions coaches are breathing down my neck to get her to take 40 AP courses, join the debate club and chess club, play Sportsball every year, take 4 years of a foreign language, do volunteering, tutor other kids, and then take extra courses at the local community college, and that doing all that will only improve her already-low chances of acceptance. Good grief!

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#344

Post by jmull »

I think the consternation here isn’t warranted.

If a large enough proportion of incoming students need an adjustment period, surely it’s better to have one than not.

Also, it’s misdirected. If incoming students aren’t prepared for college, that’s a problem at the high school level (possibly earlier, too). A university is going to do better for its students if it adjusts to reality rather than expecting it to adjust to tradition.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#345

Post by smcg »

alephnerd wrote: post #231
giantg2 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of that prestige is more regional. Perspectives change based on location and experience. The ivies tend to be more national.

They ain't. A non-trivial amount of people have not heard of Brown or Dartmouth, and confuse UPenn with Penn State. Hell, I didn't hear about Brown until high school and I ended up attending an Ivy lol. And employers and us alums of these programs know the difference is marginal.

Every employer in the northeast knows who Brown and Dartmouth are.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#346

Post by ajcp »

steele wrote: post #275
ajcp wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, again, the University of Michigan’s own admissions policies created the need for the students to “chill out”. Is this not treating a symptom of the problem, not the motivator? Also 32,000 undergrads is not “massive” by any measurement[0], especially when accounting for the population of the state of Michigan, much less the broader United States. O. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_public_u...

Michigan admissions create opportunities for students that found success within the challenging conditions. Umich treats the problem by educating future policy makers about those systems. Then occasionally yields to powerful lobby groups and clandestine operations of fascist administration.

Not gonna lie, really had me going in the first half there.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#347

Post by vel0city »

bakies wrote: post #258
firesteelrain wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How old are you? Wife has been stay at home mom since 2006. And that was when I made $40k/yr.

30

I've known many families around that age (+/- 5 years) with a stay at home spouse taking care of multiple kids. It really shapes their lifestyle in a lot of ways (smaller/older house, rarely eat out, rarely big family vacations, clothes/toys often from secondhand consignment stores, fewer/cheaper vehicles, etc.), but that's what's important to them so that's how they've set their priorities. Most didn't come from extremely wealthy backgrounds so its not necessarily like other wealthy people are propping them up, although a few are like that.

It may very well be impossible in certain markets but I wouldn't say its true across every family with the parents being around 30 years old.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#348

Post by UltraSane »

wolttam wrote: post #196
cm2187 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how kids have managed to deal with that for two centuries…

Live in an overall less uncertain environment?

Life in the 1800s seems a lot MORE uncertain than now.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#349

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

Aurornis wrote: post #214
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't get all this existential talk about college acceptance. Yes, elite schools should expect elite applicants. As a non-US person who's worked for a bunch of US companies, my belief is that the Ivy League et al act as a class system, rather than a symbol of educational attainment.

I’ve known a lot of Ivy League graduates and they were all very smart. Most of them were very good people, too. A lot of them came from backgrounds that didn’t include wealth or social connections. This goes against the stereotypes you read online, but many of them are motivated by a desire to sneer and cut down others’ achievements. Look up “tall poppy syndrome” for one phrase describing this phenomenon.

> I’ve known a lot of Ivy League graduates and they were all very smart. Most of them were very good people, too. A lot of them came from backgrounds that didn’t include wealth or social connections.

Again, the fact that entry to the class system can be meritocratic is entirely disconnected from the fact of it operating as a class system.

When I worked at Big tech I remember recruiters (US-based) talking about hiring from approved schools, which were mostly Ivy League.

Additionally, when we were hiring a candidate in Europe, our director wanted to know what school she had gone to. Fortunately, she was an Oxbridge graduate so all was well.

Again, even if all Ivy League graduates were in the top 1% of objective merit, the use of this credential in hiring/firing/other decisions is what makes it a class system.

I have worked with many Ivy League graduates and they were all super smart and mostly effective, but that doesn't change my point.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#350

Post by UltraSane »

Uncle_Brumpus wrote: post #224
naasking wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's less certain about modern environments compared to past ones?

I definitely didn't have to wonder if my career choice would be invalidated by AI by the time I graduate.

Imagine being a typesetter when the transition to digital printing presses was occurring.
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