Live data from Hacker News

American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

economist.com

341–350 of 360 posts

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just thinking about it, rich people have money to spend in elections to get their representatives elected. When they do they make laws, or remove existing laws, to help rich get richer, so they have more money to spend in the next election. And so it goes. Solution might be legislation that puts limits on how much money each person can spend on elections. But it may be too late, there are so many rich people in…

I'd prefer term limits.

Definitetly, except people to which the term-limits would apply really don't like term-limits. And they are in power.

But I don't want to souond too pessimistic, there are lots of good people and progress is inevitable. AI gets put down a lot but I think it will make people much smarter.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#342
post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just HFT, options market, futures market are all zero sum. They are massive.

How massive relative to everything else in the economy that is not zero sum? 1%? Also, disagree on options and futures market. They do provide important economoc function of price discovery and insurance against risk

Much bigger than non-derivative stock market for sure.

"The derivatives market is, in a word, gigantic—often estimated at over $1 quadrillion". The stock market would be puny in comparison. This is quite well known so was quite surprised by your objection.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/052715/how-big-deri...

The derivatives market is much larger than the stock market, both in sheer trading volume and total face value. While global stock markets represent a total value of roughly \(\$120\) trillion, the estimated notional value of the global derivatives market easily exceeds \(\$500\) trillion to \(\$1\) quadrillion.

https://share.google/aimode/EAEGnOouA5dvj9leC

Derivative markets are necessary for price discovery but when they tower over in volume over the market whose prices it was supposed to discover it is serving a purpose that towers over its justified/motivating purpose.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#344
post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL, what are you going to do? Sit at the end of Northrop field and fly a swarm of drones into the engines of a G6 traveling down the runway at over 100MPH? No way a handful of drones are going to get sucked into a jet engine at that speed. Or do you mean engage a PJ in a dogfight at 40000 feet? I suspect if drones could down a jet, we would have heard about it coming out of Ukraine by now. The reason we don't do the…

A quick google shows news articles and even videos of Ukrainian drones destroying Russian planes.

The original comment was made in relation to guillotines, popping unoccupied jets on the ground isn't what the commenter I was replying to was referring to. Taking down an occupied jet without using a sidewinder missile is a different capability.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#345
"The Economist" is falling into the rut that the remainder of British publishing has been bogged down in for a decade: increasingly liberal headlines generated via social-media topic measures to gain increased eyeballs (enough to survive).

Increasingly, British news sources are drifting leftward, primarily b/c right-wing sources are increasingly rare and, let's be honest, dull. Maybe with a little bit of say, "DEI", in the topic we can raise some eyeballs, is a typical move.

But that's a dead end. The real news is that good article headlines are hard to find and good composition is hard to write. No easy way to do that other than to find better writers.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#346

I would say with inflation, wealth inequality and skyrocketing housing, gas and grocery prices as well as super high amounts of consumer debt and families stretching to keep up it feels a lot like pre-bust 2005/2006 economy out there right now. We might not be on the cusp of a subprime mortgage bank crisis but it does feel ominous lately.

> wealth inequality Can you explain what is wrong with people having different levels of wealth? Or asked differently, if it is bad, should every individual have the exact same wealth?

>Can you explain what is wrong with people having different levels of wealth?

There's nothing wrong with it, in moderation. Where it becomes a problem is when the distribution of wealth starts diverging widely from people's expectation of what a fair distribution would be, accounting for different levels of ability and luck. Aside from this cognitive dissonance, there are also pragmatic limits on how big a disparity can be while still having a functional democracy. It's clear that truly enormous disparities in wealth, made even worse by a lack of regulation in political donation, lead to major distortions in the principle of "one person, one vote" which is a cornerstone of democracy.

>Or asked differently, if it is bad, should every individual have the exact same wealth?

No, because people have different levels of ability and experience different amounts of luck. Inequality is inevitable, and the vast majority of people understand and accept that. But they also expect that the system should at least roughly resemble a meritocracy, and that is impossible to maintain in an unregulated capital system because of the feedback loop between capital and income. Most professional sports leagues recognize this problem: once a franchise starts winning, they make more money, which allows them to buy better players, which leads to more wins, etc, until you have a league where a handful of teams can win the championship and the others are perennial also-rans. So they cap the amount of money that can be used for salaries. They are free, of course, to make as much money as they can, they just can't plow it all back into player salaries. Capital is regulated to preserve the fairness of the system. That doesn't mean the teams are all equal, there are still franchises that perform better over time than others. But it's more clearly tied to intrinsic merit like coaching systems and player development, not just going out and buying proven superstars.

Similarly, a person of average skill can get lucky and make a large amount of money. Having that capital in turn makes it easier to make more money. Over time, and across many such situations, capital starts outrunning merit as a predictor of someone's future income, which is socially demoralizing. That's where the US is today: a pervasive feeling that the system is rigged. To a great extent, this widespread perception contributes to the current political climate in the US.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#347
post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How massive relative to everything else in the economy that is not zero sum? 1%? Also, disagree on options and futures market. They do provide important economoc function of price discovery and insurance against risk

Much bigger than non-derivative stock market for sure. "The derivatives market is, in a word, gigantic—often estimated at over $1 quadrillion". The stock market would be puny in comparison. This is quite well known so was quite surprised by your objection. https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/052715/how-big-deri... The derivatives market is much larger than the stock market, both in sheer trading volume and total…

[dead]

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#348

> Perhaps the danger is not 2008, 1999, 1973 or even 1873, but 1789. 1789 was the year of the French Revolution [1]. The rest are years with financial crises. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution

Inequality and other such issues are universal, the French Revolution was not. What was unique about the French Revolution is not even that the government bankrupted themselves fighting wars and then tried to refill their coffers by sharply increasing taxes in a fashion that disproportionately affected the lower classes, but that this was all paired alongside widespread crop failures that sent the cost of food skyroc…

That’s incorrect, in fact, fairness and equality is one of the few universal social contracts that are valued in every culture on earth (though lived/implemented differently).

And I would argue that’s one of the key differences that separates humans from animals. Humans have an intrinsic desire for things to be fair.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree, coming from a 3rd country to US what I have personally perceived a lot is the generational loop at the later stage..."Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." — G. Michael Hopf

yeah all those Good Times created by Hard Men like Mussolini and Stalin or does this quote refer to Hard Men as in the men who rioted and fought and died for 8 hour work days and basic social services?

The latter

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inequality and other such issues are universal, the French Revolution was not. What was unique about the French Revolution is not even that the government bankrupted themselves fighting wars and then tried to refill their coffers by sharply increasing taxes in a fashion that disproportionately affected the lower classes, but that this was all paired alongside widespread crop failures that sent the cost of food skyroc…

That’s incorrect, in fact, fairness and equality is one of the few universal social contracts that are valued in every culture on earth (though lived/implemented differently). And I would argue that’s one of the key differences that separates humans from animals. Humans have an intrinsic desire for things to be fair.

Unfortunately, what we have and what we want are not the same thing even if near universally true. E.g. - nobody happens to be a huge fan of murder.
Post reply on HN