I don't like the framing of calling it academic dishonesty. If it were one or two students doing it, sure. But there is no reason to believe that 2026 Berkeley freshmen are fundamentally more dishonest than 2025 Berkeley students. When so many are doing it, it suggests a sea change in the understanding of what is honest or dishonest in that particular community. That sort of thing should be treated more like a "disease": something that should be treated, than a "crime": something that will be punished.
Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes
341–350 of 828 posts
Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes
#342CS Professor here: just yesterday I did the discussion of a course projects' (Parallel Computing), and one of the three groups that I did yesterday have clearly gone the ChatGPT way. They couldn't even understand the choices the LLM made regarding the architecture, etc. The way to "catch" these students is similar to what we did in the past when students copied from other students which is "to give them rope to hang"…
What is the policy and guidance you gave the students regarding LLM use?
Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes
#343I have some sympathy for these kids. If LLMs were around when I was a student, I would've also used them to "speed up" my homework assignments then proceed to fail all my tests. Now I work mostly with PhDs who were at the top of every academic environment they've ever been in. And yet I can see their thinking skills rapidly declining as well; many of them can no longer brainstorm, code, think deeply, or write without…
> If LLMs were around when I was a student, I would've also used them to "speed up" my homework assignments then proceed to fail all my tests. You go to a university because you are deeply interested in understanding the subject that you study. Doing the homework and the tests are just the "goalposts" to check for yourself whether you made progress on this. So, as long as you are not under time pressure (which you in…
> You go to a university because you are deeply interested in understanding the subject that you study.
This is a bit of a naive or maybe affluent take? Like, theoretically, I agree. And I myself was curious. But most people, by and large, are going to university because they know they need a degree to get a job, unlike their parents or grandparents. And even "the degree" is quickly becoming devalued in this current AI age.
I would guess that if all basic needs were met through UBI, the fraction of individuals going to school would drop and the makeup of subjects they pursue would change. Probably more cooking and art classes and less stem. Although, if UBI existed and AI did not, we'd probably see more educated individuals in the first place so maybe there would be an uptick in stem attendance and general curiosity in such a utopian world.
Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes
#344I have some sympathy for these kids. If LLMs were around when I was a student, I would've also used them to "speed up" my homework assignments then proceed to fail all my tests. Now I work mostly with PhDs who were at the top of every academic environment they've ever been in. And yet I can see their thinking skills rapidly declining as well; many of them can no longer brainstorm, code, think deeply, or write without…
The LLMs will gradually cramp more and more adds in their responses in an effort to make a profit.
At least now we know why we will start watering our plants with Brawndo.
Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes
#345Earlier quoted context omitted.
Eh, I think it's less like a cigarette and more like the car. We're not going back. Americans are famously less healthy the more car dependent they are, and now people walk/run as an explicit task to be healthy. People will start going to a "thinking" gym, or engaging in additional manual mental activities for sport, like we do with chess today.
Funny that you mention that. A month ago I started the Duolingo chess course, and just yesterday I noticed that my brain is clearer, more capable of deep thought than it has been in years. It's like stepping out of a fog. I also started CPAP recently, so it's hard to attribute the change to either, but I feel certain that the chess helped.
Yeah CPAP is doing the heavy lifting most likely.
Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes
#346I have some sympathy for these kids. If LLMs were around when I was a student, I would've also used them to "speed up" my homework assignments then proceed to fail all my tests. Now I work mostly with PhDs who were at the top of every academic environment they've ever been in. And yet I can see their thinking skills rapidly declining as well; many of them can no longer brainstorm, code, think deeply, or write without…
I think this would be fine as an adult, if it meant using LLM to churn out the boring work required of you at a corporate gig, to spend more brain cycles on something you actually want to work on.
The problem is that it sounds like many people are just using it for everything.
Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes
#347Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If LLMs were around when I was a student, I would've also used them to "speed up" my homework assignments then proceed to fail all my tests. You go to a university because you are deeply interested in understanding the subject that you study. Doing the homework and the tests are just the "goalposts" to check for yourself whether you made progress on this. So, as long as you are not under time pressure (which you in…
> If, on the other hand, LLMs help you with making much faster progress in understanding the subject that you study My experience is that they uncomfortably do both. You can "understand" something conceptually quicker -- like you have a new brain-muscle-thing that lets you cut through the hard difficult tedious corners to get to the meat of the matter. But then you also can become reliant on it, and have difficulty d…
It's two fold. They're learning and understanding more things, but at a very surface level and without the nuance and ability to actually use the knowledge because they have none of the muscle memory and hard work associated with learning it.
You can use AI or the internet to learn the basics of how a gas engine works in a couple of minutes. But you'd be incapable of actually working on a gas engine or designing one.
Surface level knowledge gets you surface level functionality. You don't become good at something from surface level knowledge, but you might think you're good at it.
Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes
#348I have some sympathy for these kids. If LLMs were around when I was a student, I would've also used them to "speed up" my homework assignments then proceed to fail all my tests. Now I work mostly with PhDs who were at the top of every academic environment they've ever been in. And yet I can see their thinking skills rapidly declining as well; many of them can no longer brainstorm, code, think deeply, or write without…
> If LLMs were around when I was a student, I would've also used them to "speed up" my homework assignments then proceed to fail all my tests. You go to a university because you are deeply interested in understanding the subject that you study. Doing the homework and the tests are just the "goalposts" to check for yourself whether you made progress on this. So, as long as you are not under time pressure (which you in…
What a delightful fantasy world you live in. Doesn’t sound very predictive of actual human behavior though.
Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes
#349Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If LLMs were around when I was a student, I would've also used them to "speed up" my homework assignments then proceed to fail all my tests. You go to a university because you are deeply interested in understanding the subject that you study. Doing the homework and the tests are just the "goalposts" to check for yourself whether you made progress on this. So, as long as you are not under time pressure (which you in…
> You go to a university because you are deeply interested in understanding the subject that you study. This has not been true for something like 70 years now. People go to university because it is expected that that is what you do after high school.
> This has not been true for something like 70 years now. People go to university because it is expected that that is what you do after high school.
In Germany, many people indeed say if you are not deeply into the topic that you study, you should rather get a vocational training (Ausbildung), or attend a different kind of tertiary education than a university such as
- Fachhochschule
- Berufsakademie
(these words have no good English translation). Basically these are kinds of tertiary education that are more applied than the much more scientific training that you get at a university.
Specifically for mathematics (I guess the same holds for physics), a lot of people say that if you don't consider it to be an ideal life to think about math exercise sheets when you sit in the bathtub while other people are having fun at some party, you simply are not made for studying mathematics and should change your degree course as soon as possible.
Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes
#350I have some sympathy for these kids. If LLMs were around when I was a student, I would've also used them to "speed up" my homework assignments then proceed to fail all my tests. Now I work mostly with PhDs who were at the top of every academic environment they've ever been in. And yet I can see their thinking skills rapidly declining as well; many of them can no longer brainstorm, code, think deeply, or write without…
I have observed this in myself when I began to over-leverage AI in my workflows. I've since become more deliberate with what kinds of tasks I will use it for, although I still slip up. With writing: Things like brainstorming a plot line for a book with a custom GPT or Claude project that has all of my prior books in its knowledge? Works great. Things like asking it to write a paragraph or chapter for me - I can rapid…
The place I've come to with AI for writing is to have an idea for a chapter/article/etc, which I take to AI, and tell it to either ask me a bunch of clarifying questions, or try to blow holes in it/challenge it. I'll keep talking to AI and answering questions/handling challenges until the AI runs out of steam, then I'll ask the AI to write out a condensed outline with all the pertinent details of the conversation.
Once I have the condensed outline, I'll re-order stuff, clean it up/tune it up, then do the final writing. This keeps my voice and logical train of thought while avoiding blank page syndrome and some of the organizational mess of condensing notes into an outline manually.