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Can we have the day off?

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Re: Can we have the day off?

#341

Post by anigbrowl »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #316
Avicebron wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don't understand why people make these hyperbolic jokes about guillotines. Violence is counterproductive; and not practical anyway. Joking about it just makes you feel great without actually doing anything. There is a simple alternative. Vote; and educate your family and friends. If you don't know what is on the ballot in the midterms, you are part of the problem. If you aren't starting a family conversation about…

Violence has been very productive for the ruling class. Voting sounds nice but evidence abounds about the mendacity of politicians and their willingness to subvert or overrule voters' preferences if sufficient money or status is to be had. You can say 'well vote those people out if they ignore the voters' but once a new reality has set in the politicians often gainan incumbency advantageor have lined up a cushy post-retirement gig.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#342

Post by komali2 »

jlebar wrote: post #327
ncallaway wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but a day off would reduce supply. And 2 days off was not a system dictated by God, which we are obligated to keep in perpetuity (in fact, most religions dictate 1 day off, not 2). So, we could, as a society, just choose to make a 32 hour workweek “full time”, and mandate overtime pay after that. There’s no reason, even under capitalism that we must allow all of the productivity gains to accrue to the benefit…

> There’s no reason, even under capitalism that we must allow all of the productivity gains to accrue to the benefit of solely those at the top of an enormous pile of wealth. I would question the premise that all or even most of the productivity gains of any past technological improvement have accrued to the benefit of solely those at the top of an enormous pile of wealth. 200 years ago 90% of Americans lived on farm…

> The economic surplus from that increase in productivity accrued to everyone in society, not just the wealthy.

Sure, a poor man with two dollars is richer than a poor man with one dollar.

And yet the man handing out the dollars had 100$ in surplus when he was handing out 1s and now that he's handing out 2's he's got 1,000,000,000.

Look at the wealth disparity. Even if quality of life has increased, it's not wrong for the people delivering that increased quality of life (workers) to also demand a requisite slice of the pie.

In fact, I see no reason why the pie should be shared with wealthy non workers at all. Were they necessary for the increased quality of life?

On top of that, it's a global economy. Expand beyond the USA and include in your analysis how life has changed in imperialized nations that now function as cheap labor sources for our factories that pollute the local environment while exploiting workers for absurdly low wages and bad working conditions.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#343

Post by musicale »

porknubbins wrote: post #293
_moof wrote: post #257

Whenever a new way is found to improve efficiency, choices have to be made about how to distribute the new surplus. Choices are made by people who have power and imposed upon people who don't. The people with power under current systems don't care about the people who do the work. They care about getting rich. So if there's an efficiency gain to be had, all of that new efficiency is going to be put towards increasing…

My employers who are introducing AI are not laughing evil supervillains hoovering up all the excess profits, they are normal people who wanted long careers and are as nervous as anyone about competition amd what AI will do to organizations if people become truly redundant.

> My employers who are introducing AI are not laughing evil supervillains hoovering up all the excess profits

I care less about the motivation rather than the action.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#344

Post by skew-aberration »

jlebar wrote: post #292
_moof wrote: post #257

Whenever a new way is found to improve efficiency, choices have to be made about how to distribute the new surplus. Choices are made by people who have power and imposed upon people who don't. The people with power under current systems don't care about the people who do the work. They care about getting rich. So if there's an efficiency gain to be had, all of that new efficiency is going to be put towards increasing…

> Choices are made by people who have power and imposed upon people who don't. In a capitalist society, choices are made according to supply and demand. In a world where there's a positive supply shock (in this case, there's a lot more programming available for purchase today than there was a year ago), supply goes up. We therefore expect the price for the good to decrease. This has nothing to do with power or whethe…

From where do you get your understanding of the terms supply and demand? They are primarily from classical economics - have you read any? e.g Adam Smith?

Re: Can we have the day off?

#345

Post by spunker540 »

nlawalker wrote: post #181
Cakez0r wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is that most people are paid for their time, not for their output. I think most contracts for salaried employees are along the lines of "work n hours a week". If you want to get paid for output, you can't be a salaried employee.

Salaried employees aren't paid for their time, they're paid for a combination of their output and their availability . Availability used to be strongly coupled with time but technology has introduced some flexibility there.

I think it depends. Plenty of salaried workers are truly only on the clock when on-site from 9-5

Re: Can we have the day off?

#346

Post by nlawalker »

mastazi wrote: post #294
nlawalker wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salaried employees aren't paid for their time, they're paid for a combination of their output and their availability . Availability used to be strongly coupled with time but technology has introduced some flexibility there.

Can you give some examples of jobs that are usually done by salaried employees and are paid by output? All the examples I can think of, are usually done by independent contractors.

Not by output, for output - as in, not paid per unit of output, but paid for achieving a sufficient level of it, the definition of which frequently changes. That's baked into the definition of salaried.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#347

Post by vkou »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #316
Avicebron wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don't understand why people make these hyperbolic jokes about guillotines. Violence is counterproductive; and not practical anyway. Joking about it just makes you feel great without actually doing anything. There is a simple alternative. Vote; and educate your family and friends. If you don't know what is on the ballot in the midterms, you are part of the problem. If you aren't starting a family conversation about…

[dead]

Re: Can we have the day off?

#348

Post by jonstewart »

_moof wrote: post #257

Whenever a new way is found to improve efficiency, choices have to be made about how to distribute the new surplus. Choices are made by people who have power and imposed upon people who don't. The people with power under current systems don't care about the people who do the work. They care about getting rich. So if there's an efficiency gain to be had, all of that new efficiency is going to be put towards increasing…

"The strong do what they can, the weak suffer what they must." — Thucydides

Re: Can we have the day off?

#349

Post by AngryData »

matchbok3 wrote: post #24

Sorry, I'd rather have a higher quality of living for most people (as evidenced by any huge development in technology) rather than humanity stagnating. This post is quite myopic.

You think if people worked less technological progress would just completely seize up and humanity stagnate? I find that pretty hard to believe and see no evidence to support that.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#350

Post by Jgrubb »

afro88 wrote: post #309
fg137 wrote: post #296

I never understand why software engineers are so excited about AI as a whole. If you are excited about the technology, sure. But if you are excited about the increase in productivity, unless you are a manager, I don't really understand it. Like, why? You are not working one hour less than before. If anything, it's more likely you'll get laid off and have trouble finding your next job.

Is the end goal to not work? Are we supposed to not enjoy what we work on? Do we not believe in what the company we work for is trying to achieve?

I don't know what's gonna happen man, but I'm gonna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames.

- Jim Morrison

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