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Erin Brockovich made a map to track data centers around the country

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Re: Erin Brockovich made a map to track data centers around the country

#341
post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, golf courses and data centers need to be regulated and limited. Though data centers seem to use much more water per acre than golf courses. The number I pulled in the original post was global golf course water consumption not just the US. Golf courses also use 7x more pesticides than agricultural land. On the other hand data centers that try to do "closed loop" systems rely on heavy use of anti-freeze, anti-f…

Again: using more acreage makes golf courses worse .

I don't understand what you're trying to say and I think you might be very confused. Data centers use more water per acre.

If we had the exact same number of acres of golf courses and data centers, data centers would use more water.

Re: Erin Brockovich made a map to track data centers around the country

#342
post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again: using more acreage makes golf courses worse .

I don't understand what you're trying to say and I think you might be very confused. Data centers use more water per acre. If we had the exact same number of acres of golf courses and data centers, data centers would use more water.

That's the point: we won't have the same number of acres of golf courses and data centers. Golf courses intrinsically use more land.

Re: Erin Brockovich made a map to track data centers around the country

#343
post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea, but the fact is they do! Probably something to do with the way they do RLHF?

> I have no idea, but the fact is they do! Well, that's the assumption I'm challenging. That does not seem to be a substantiated fact at all. Most of the arguments I've encountered online that attempt to make the case that LLMs do have a writing style that's readily distinguishable from human writing are deeply afflicted with confirmation bias, and are often based on circular reasoning. My comment above was a rhetori…

> Well, that's the assumption I'm challenging. That does not seem to be a substantiated fact at all.

It's not a assumption or confirmation bias. It's plain as day if you read any of these AI generated (or assisted) articles. You may as well ask me for proof that HN readers are pedantic.

Re: Erin Brockovich made a map to track data centers around the country

#344
post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have no idea, but the fact is they do! Well, that's the assumption I'm challenging. That does not seem to be a substantiated fact at all. Most of the arguments I've encountered online that attempt to make the case that LLMs do have a writing style that's readily distinguishable from human writing are deeply afflicted with confirmation bias, and are often based on circular reasoning. My comment above was a rhetori…

> Well, that's the assumption I'm challenging. That does not seem to be a substantiated fact at all. It's not a assumption or confirmation bias. It's plain as day if you read any of these AI generated (or assisted) articles. You may as well ask me for proof that HN readers are pedantic.

It's not possible for any of this to be "plain as day" without being substantiated by data. There is no way to validate a statistical indicator without being able to independently measure the target variable.

Validating your criteria against the same subjective impressions that informed those criteria in the first place is an exercise in both circular reasoning and confirmation bias.

Re: Erin Brockovich made a map to track data centers around the country

#345
post #314
post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think most people see things this way. That itself is likely an exaggerated perception, and NIMBYism isn't quite as much of a controlling factor as is often believed. These projects usually do get built, but when NIMBYs do succeed, it's because they manage to demonstrate how the project runs afoul of rules that are there to prevent negative externalities. Again, there are no rules mandating positive ones, and…

> Again, there are no rules mandating positive ones, and even if that mindset motivates some people, it is not and never has been actionable in its own right. I never said there was?? > No, it's not. You just admitted that it isn't, and that these concerns are just being used as a pretext to challenge AI.e I did not. I said the online AI fervor brings eyeballs to local datacenter projects and once people are aware of…

> I never said there was??

You distinguished data centers from other types of facilities on the basis of those other facilities having external effects that are "essential to a community", and then used that distinction as a basis for arguing that it's acceptable to restrict the construction of data centers.

Arguing that it's OK to restrict activities because they aren't generating positive externalities is equivalent to arguing for rules that mandate positive externalities.

> I said the online AI fervor brings eyeballs to local datacenter projects and once people are aware of these projects they are against them because of the negative impacts to their community not simply because they are against AI if they even are. In fact many people in Utah are pro AI but against the construction of Stratos simply because it is _bad_for_their_community_.

That seems a little dubious to me, since I'd expect people who are against large commercial developments regardless of how they're being used to already be aware of proposed development projects without having to learn of them via online AI hype. The sorts of NIMBY-minded folks you're talking about are the sort that routinely monitor municipal governance, and especially things like building permit issuances, zoning board discussions, etc.

My suspicion is that the people you're talking about here are anti-AI activists trying to make a "parallel construction" argument to advance their position.

> Many of those governments are responsive to the people and the people _do_not_want_ datacenters in their community.

This doesn't add up. New data centers are being built regularly, so it's not possible for all of the premises of your argument ("data centers require government approval", "governments are responsive to the people", "the people are opposed to data center construction") to be true, since data centers would not be constructed if they were. At least one of these premises must be false, and I think there's a strong possibility that all three may be false.

Re: Erin Brockovich made a map to track data centers around the country

#346
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seemed high to me. According to Google, one ton of water takes about 730kWh to boil. So I think you’re off by an order of magnitude, it’s only ~450 metric tons. (But this assumes that no heat is radiated away in other forms.)

Google confused you. One needs 730 kWh to fully evaporate 1 ton of water. Otherwise it's 1.16 Wh/kg (or kWh/ton) to rise the temprature by 1°C. Thus one needs a delta of 80°C, so 93 Wh to boil a kg of 20°C water. That's what my napkin math was based on. I used that metric a lot to calculate heat deltas in storage tanks.

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