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Uber’s COO says it’s getting harder to justify money spent on tokenmaxxing

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341–350 of 360 posts

Re: Uber’s COO says it’s getting harder to justify money spent on tokenmaxxing

#341

If any company announces that they use token consumption as an employee performance signal, for me that's close to a red flag to stay away from that company. No company with good engineering leadership should act like this is remotely a good idea.

The problem is that many companies which had reasonable leadership in the past with the advent of LLM AI started to make rushed (and dubious from my point of view) decisions - using token usage to evaluate an employee performance is just one of them.

Re: Uber’s COO says it’s getting harder to justify money spent on tokenmaxxing

#342
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, they also said that previous time off for ill health wasn't a reason either. but looking at the number of people who had taken leave, it suggests otherwise.

You can believe whatever conspiracy theories you want, of course, but the most straightforward explanation is that when you lay off X,000 or XX,000 people, some number of them will be on leave.

In London, large number of people on sick leave, or were recently on sick leave were fired. I was there, I saw the people, did the numbers.

Re: Uber’s COO says it’s getting harder to justify money spent on tokenmaxxing

#343
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tokenmaxxing exists because executives think employees are resistant to change. Thats it, a way to incentivize/force every employee to experiment with a new technology. Obviously once they think everyone is utilizing AI the tokkenmaxxing stuff will end.

Yes. Executives think, correctly , that employees are resistant to change.

"Correctly" doing a lot of carrying. The last 10 years of tech leadership has proven how out of touch and straight up terrible they are.

They are leeches that are just extracting wealth from their respective monopolies.

Re: Uber’s COO says it’s getting harder to justify money spent on tokenmaxxing

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could have easily disproved my claim by linking your comments with a more balanced or nuanced opinions on the matter, except you cannot, because there is only even more outlandish and wild stuff you say about AI and LLMs.

Every time I've tried to engage you in debate you just call me a shill so there's no point. Love ya too though!

I have explicitly stated more than once, beforehand, what would have given you a benefit of doubt from my perspective. Even after reading all that you opted for answer evasion, rather than providing any substance, as you do with all the questions addressed to you. I do understand why you had to do it here though, because the claims regarding AI and LLM you have made before are even more outlandish than what has been posted over the last 10 days and similarly without a single shred of proof.

Re: Uber’s COO says it’s getting harder to justify money spent on tokenmaxxing

#345
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can believe whatever conspiracy theories you want, of course, but the most straightforward explanation is that when you lay off X,000 or XX,000 people, some number of them will be on leave.

In London, large number of people on sick leave, or were recently on sick leave were fired. I was there, I saw the people, did the numbers.

If you did the numbers, would you share them with the rest of us instead of just alleging secret facts?

Re: Uber’s COO says it’s getting harder to justify money spent on tokenmaxxing

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine you employ me as a hotel manager, and I come to you and say: "sure I spent all our food budget internationally in three months, but we invented this new dish and now our restaurant is the hottest in town. Sure 95% of the food was wasted but now we can stop the waste and keep the popular dish."

Ok, but was that your intention in the first place? or was it to have food fights. Thats the problem here. The idea is that we can build more stuff, quickly. However in uber's case, they just burnt loads of money to push a metric that wasn't really related to productivity.

The intention was to force everyone to experiment with the new ingredient monsanto recently GMO'd. Of course a lot of our employees suck, so food fights were expected, but luckily some of the employees created something great.

Re: Uber’s COO says it’s getting harder to justify money spent on tokenmaxxing

#347

If any company announces that they use token consumption as an employee performance signal, for me that's close to a red flag to stay away from that company. No company with good engineering leadership should act like this is remotely a good idea.

I worked at a YC company that was doing this and left last month. I wonder where this all started from, VCs and tech execs are such a monoculture

https://x.com/garrytan/status/2018368316033946021

"I am currently averaging about 10k LOC per day (35% of the lines are tests) so wow, 15k/day is #goals"

Garry Tan - YC CEO and LLM psychosis victim (but he doesn't realise that yet)

Re: Uber’s COO says it’s getting harder to justify money spent on tokenmaxxing

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was programming desktop applications when the web came along. I don't remember anyone ever saying they had been mandated to program for it. The web took off all by itself because it had a clear value proposition for some use cases.

> The web took off all by itself because it had a clear value proposition for some use cases. Many enterprises became legacy because of the web, many enterprises failed because they didn't understand the impact of the tech. Sears was the OG Amazon. Imagine if Sears had seen it as the new digital catalog. Blockbuster missed on streaming until it was too late. Many, many legacy companies did not understand the web and…

I genuinely think you don't actually know the history and timeline of companies you talk about. Mostly because it did not happened how you imagine, in the quick timeline you imagine nor even for reasons you imagine.

And even more importantly, the companies who went all in early and spent too much money on it too early without good reason went boom. You had to have actual business reason for it to be success.

Re: Uber’s COO says it’s getting harder to justify money spent on tokenmaxxing

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you decide its usefulness based on how high the bill is, or how many things you get done while using it? The former is the issue, and how many companies have been operating. It's like a trucking company ranking driver effectiveness by fuel used instead of by cargo moved.

The former. I’m able to get more Tickets done with it than without.

I think that’s the point being made by the CEO. Measuring token usage isn’t a good way to measure effectiveness. They should be counting output (tickets on your case) instead of input (AI spend).

Re: Uber’s COO says it’s getting harder to justify money spent on tokenmaxxing

#350
post #285
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, it's undoubtedly both. The number of product teams who have shipped expensive-to-operate AI features is wayyyy up there, and for many of the scenarios I've seen, customers simply don't care or are unwilling to pay significant premium for access to it. At the same time I'm starting to see some direction from people in leadership that I should "use the right model for the job" and things along those lines, which i…

> we'll house the data, enrich it, maintain it, provide fine-grained API access over it tailored to model usage, and you bring the model isnt this just mcp servers hosted by the saas provider?

Eh, sort of. I think a lot of API surfaces are too chatty for LLM consumption, or do not provide the primitive API surfaces that compose what they currently offer today. MCP in the middle doesn't give you that for free. The data shapes are different, the surfaces are probably necessarily wider in a lot of use cases, efficient retrieval of small bits of data that feed aggregates, etc.
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