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I moved my digital stack to Europe

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Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#341

Post by pjc50 »

palata wrote: post #273
mrits wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the a US perspective, EU hate each other and I see no way any temporary cohesiveness will last. Most EU countries are just as likely to elect a Trump in the next decade

> EU hate each other I see how it may look like this from the outside. But I think it would be like saying that siblings hate each other because you witnessed an argument. Most people in most EU countries consider the other EU countries as allies, even though they don't agree on everything. Now the fact that 27 countries argue means that they talk to each other. I think it's a lot less polarised than in the US. Or co…

I have no idea how you'd measure it, but I suspect Republican states hate Democrat ones more than most European countries hate each other. Listen to the way they talk about California and New York.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#342

Post by lukewarm707 »

yanis_t wrote: post #280

Sorry to bring it to you folks, but this is not how you build a competitive industry. You put properly though-through legislation in place if you want EU to be competitive with US and China. Not regulations, for f sake.

china-based cloud providers would be perfect for me, many offer private sla, no data retention, and they have everything you could want.

sounds basic but the problem for me is that the internet law in china is very restrictive.

on top of that, in the uk and in china, the government will lock you in a cage unless you give them the encryption keys.

so if i was using alibaba cloud, i would have to play hopscotch trying not to tread on various legal landmines and it's not so attractive for me.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#343

Post by 9dev »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #288
GJim wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they are discussing restricting VPN access for 'child protection Oh FFS! Governments discussing such things doesn't _remotely_ mean there is a political will for them, or that they will be voted into law. Governments are expected to research and discuss paths of legislation (and in this case, come to the conclusion banning VPNs is both harmful and ridiculous). This is how our democracies work! Implying government d…

Why do you think entirely different countries and states with entirely different politics across Europe Canada and America all pushing the same policy coincidentally within the space of 6 months has anything to do with democracy. It’s people being paid off and it’s obvious.

External influence and lobbyism is part of the democratic process for sure. Stable democracies have self-correcting mechanisms to defend against too much pressure from any side. There is no reason (yet) to doubt the effectiveness of the European Union's self-correcting mechanisms.

IMHO, you're both right: There is an active, covert political campaign for more online surveillance under the guise of child protection going on world-wide right now; so much is clear to anyone following the various attempts everywhere. Yet as of now, this campaign hasn't lead to actual, harmful legislation in the EU.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#344

Post by gmueckl »

palata wrote: post #273
mrits wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the a US perspective, EU hate each other and I see no way any temporary cohesiveness will last. Most EU countries are just as likely to elect a Trump in the next decade

> EU hate each other I see how it may look like this from the outside. But I think it would be like saying that siblings hate each other because you witnessed an argument. Most people in most EU countries consider the other EU countries as allies, even though they don't agree on everything. Now the fact that 27 countries argue means that they talk to each other. I think it's a lot less polarised than in the US. Or co…

The EU needs to be more vigilant than ever, though. Russia has been trying to export their nationalistic totalitarianism to the EU for decades and now the US has openly declared a goal of exporting their brand of blind ignorant nationalism to the EU as well. Both influences will boost alt-right parties if successful. The obvious intended outcome for both powers is a EU that is breaking up from the inside.

On the positive side, this shows that the EU has gained a level of international influence that is taken very seriously by other major powers. It's not 100% certain that it will survive this current wave of assaults, but if it does, it will be even stronger.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#345

Post by vga1 »

blululu wrote: post #278
embedding-shape wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Definitely a change, because it is not something I can recall being important just a couple of years ago. I work as a consultant and freelancer across a bunch of companies, some American but mostly European ones. Last ~8 months or so, the sentiment about "Hosting our data in EU or even our own country" has drastically changed, I don't think I've seen such a clear shift in public opinion so fast before. The amount o…

Out of curiosity how much of this is a manifestation of the utility of LLMs? I get the current political impetus right now but also the barrier for swapping out an infra stack was also much higher 2 years ago. From my own projects major swaps are now relatively trivial which means that vendor lock in is weak.

Some. Many companies have relied in the past on the fact that doing things is freaking complicated. Such as maintaining your own services instead of using something from a provider like AWS.

What used to be a half year transition project that will be half-assed due to resource constraints, can now be properly done in a month by a skilled engineering team works on it with LLM leverage.

Of course, if America was still a trusted ally (like if Harris was president), we still wouldn't be doing it. Even if it was easy now.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#346

Post by pelagicAustral »

Got a similar stack for my personal stuff, but would probably do the same if I was freelancing and whatnot.

Bunny, UpCloud/Scaleway, Proton, Mistral, self-hosted Gitlab, self-hosted Plausible, had no idea about BugSink so amazing, now I know... and I deploy everything via some form of self-hosted Heroku

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#347

Post by weberer »

embedding-shape wrote: post #151
TrackerFF wrote: post #49

For the past days I've been participating(albeit over Teams) in a conference relevant to my industry (intel), basically startups and established companies showcasing their products to a closed audience of EU gov. officials. One thing I noticed right away, is that all companies were asked "Can we fully host this from within EU or our country" from the various people in audience. Every single one. Many of the startups…

> Definitely a change, because it is not something I can recall being important just a couple of years ago. I work as a consultant and freelancer across a bunch of companies, some American but mostly European ones. Last ~8 months or so, the sentiment about "Hosting our data in EU or even our own country" has drastically changed, I don't think I've seen such a clear shift in public opinion so fast before. The amount o…

>I don't think I've seen such a clear shift in public opinion so fast before

Its not about public opinion, but rather data sovereignty requirements. Certain types of data must be processed within servers located in the EU, regardless of where the company's HQ is. That's why you see most SaaS platforms nowadays offer a EU-only version.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#348

Post by dlev_pika »

2p3onf_Dfj wrote: post #292
pastage wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The complete disinterest in international allies from the American public is troublesome. I recently was in a discussion about what kind of responsibility we can put on the residents of the US for this situation. A US lawyer answered "well the 25th amendment ties our hands, and we do a lot of protesting so no blame on us". The judgement on US citizens was pretty harsh. You guys have to work a lot harder to fix your i…

There is a way in which this whole situation has been revealing to me about how little some outside the US actually understand about US politics and civic structures, or alternatively have their own form of isolationism. The heterogeneity in the US — culturally and in terms of political-legal structures — is far greater than those in Europe and Canada seem to understand sometimes. This is now combined with a corrupti…

I don’t think the billionaire technofascists will just stop by their own volition, no matter how nice we ask.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#349

Post by OhMeadhbh »

I tried scaleway about 7 or 8 years ago and it was still pretty rough. And setting up with them required multiple trips to government portals to get id documents they would accept. Being European, they don't know how to scan the bar code on the back of US driver's licenses. It was a major PITA getting them to understand that people will sometimes change their names after they get married (my passport and birth certificate have different names and I had to dhl them a notarized copy of my name change order.)

So... Digital sovereignty is cool and all, but Scaleway is taking "Know Your Customer" seriously.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#350

Post by throwaway2037 »

oneplane wrote: post #246
libertine wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, couldn't ASML replace the all of those elements with either their own development or new suppliers? This is taking into account the worst case scenario, which isn't that unlikely to happen. I mean, for sure there are these plans in motion already, but how hard would it be?

Not really, some of the IP is core to the product and it cannot function without it. In theory if you do something like come up with a complete replacement for EUV, you could, but everyone with deep pockets has already been trying to do that without success. Same goes for the supply chains, most companies (including ASML) don't manufacture everything themselves; so components that come out of the US would need non-US…

Agree. This blog post about the history of ASML is absolutely brilliant: https://www.worksinprogress.news/p/how-asml-took-over-the-wo...
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