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Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

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Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#341
post #47

'He also explained that "I'm a big believer in screens, because I really believe if you want to connect, you have to make the magic work behind the screen." ' I am a big believer in keeping "product people" away from UI design for dangerous machinery. The eyes and the attention of the driver should be on the road. All the audio visual noise from the car is just plain dangerous. I don't want my car to draw my attentio…

The thing that everyone always misses in these conversations is that screens over buttons is a cost cutting measure, not a first-principles design decision. It means the UI can be designed and developed mostly independently of the physical controls, which helps reduce rework. I also expect it reduces costs for manufacture and assembly. I’m in favour of more physical controls, but it surprises me that this rarely come…

I'm not convinced it is that easy.

Cars traditionally have very generic button clusters, like [0]. It is even very common to have dummy buttons in there. Combine that with today's cars where those buttons are hooked up to some MCU to send a CAN message instead of being hardwired to a function-specific cable in a giant loom, and it is suddenly quite easy to change button functionality quite late in the design process for basically zero cost: you just need a slightly different label print and a small firmware patch!

Or, if you want to be 100% flexible, go with the ATM approach where physical buttons are placed next to an icon shown on a screen[1]. All of the flexibility and all of the tactile feedback! You can even go for a multi-level layout, with a top row of mode selection buttons, a bottom row of mode-specific function buttons, and perhaps even a big fat dial with haptic feedback[2]. Or even go all-out Elgato Stream Deck[3].

And sure, the fact that slapping in a giant touchscreen lets them decouple UX design from physical controls is going to play a big role. But it is by far the laziest and least user-friendly way of doing so. If that's the best you can come up with, you probably shouldn't be doing UX design at all.

[0]: https://www.classiccarstodayonline.com/wp-content/uploads/20...

[1]: https://media.istockphoto.com/id/672002868/vector/atm-machin...

[2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip641WmY4pA

[3]: https://1.img-dpreview.com/files/p/E~TS940x788~articles/8521...

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#342
post #267

I hope Elon Musk can take a lesson from Mercedes. Tesla went in the other direction: there are barely any physical buttons to remove, so they removed the stalks for signaling and even for changing gear! You have to use the touch screen to shift gears!

Tesla is dead company walking.

Let me expound: They've said for years they are no longer a car company, and they are acting like it. Their last UX experiments were several years ago and apart from the on-screen PRND, they had to walk them back (yoke steering wheel, blinker buttons).

Autopilot regressed in that you can't even turn autosteer on/off without stopping the car.

Model 3 and Y refreshes were lackluster, S and X are gone, Cybertruck which actually had some catching-up stuff (800 V, V2L) is a write-off and Roadster is what, 7 years delayed and nowhere to be seen and there's nothing else announced on the horizon.

Not a car company. All ready and ripe to merge with SpaceX.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marketing beats quality, also a valid approach. Also a reason why suvs and their more ridiculous variants picked up so well. People don't need cars that are worse to drive, but sure as hell they want one because others have them.

Does Tesla do marketing? They don't advertise in my country.

Tesla historically focused on what marketers refer to as "earned media" rather than "paid media", but it was still marketing. Those Musk and Tesla headlines that happened around the world didn't occur by accident.

That said, they've also been buying ads for the last few years as their growth has sputtered in the face of competition.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#345

I hope Elon Musk can take a lesson from Mercedes. Tesla went in the other direction: there are barely any physical buttons to remove, so they removed the stalks for signaling and even for changing gear! You have to use the touch screen to shift gears!

Tesla sells twice as many cars as Mercedes...

Where'd that figure come from?

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#346

I hope Elon Musk can take a lesson from Mercedes. Tesla went in the other direction: there are barely any physical buttons to remove, so they removed the stalks for signaling and even for changing gear! You have to use the touch screen to shift gears!

Tesla does a great job not having buttons. I think the real issue is that other car companies have bad interfaces that make physical buttons necessary. Tesla just has a great UI that does not need physical buttons.

No. They don't. They unleashed this touch screen plague upon the entire car industry because they were too cheap to engineer a proper control panel.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#347
post #6

I’m quite suspicious that they do that not because they understood or learned something, but because China requires physical buttons starting next year. And they simply don’t want to lose one of their biggest markets.

well their F1 yoke uses lots of buttons, and makers often roll insights from F1 into production cars

https://sim-lab.us/cdn/shop/files/mercedes-product-image.png...

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last month I spoke to a woman driving a Porsche SUV. I was appalled to hear that she is trading it in for a Tesla model Y. I drive a Tesla, and I love it, but it is nowhere near the level of a Porsche. She claims that the model Y is quieter then the Porsche and she loves the self-driving. I advised her to take the Tesla for a long test drive before selling her Porshe, she said that her son in law has one.

It is true though. The level of porche is in the brand only; there isn't a single porche that is better than a juniper for a daily driver. She's making an excellent choice.

what's a juniper?

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#349

touch screens in cars are mainly a cost saving measure, just like plastic that is supposed to look like wood (cheaper than real wood), or economy class tires instead of higher end tires, or steel rather than aluminum.

Exactly why Tesla started doing it in the first place. I don't know if it's cheaper to build at scale, but it's definitely cheaper to engineer.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#350
post #6

I’m quite suspicious that they do that not because they understood or learned something, but because China requires physical buttons starting next year. And they simply don’t want to lose one of their biggest markets.

Despite China, IT development is a complete disaster in Germany. All car so called German car manufacturers UX/UI is horrible to say the least. Dieter Rams is the only UX/UI designer, who became famous - outside of Germany. Hartmut Esslinger kind of popularized DR, what an irony, that two Germans made history, but of course not in Germany and even in Germany DR wasn't well known. Braun was a brand and statement, but…

> All car so called German car manufacturers UX/UI is horrible to say the least.

What?

My BMW i4 has iDrive 8.5 and it's excellent, and i've had Mercedes and Audi and VW and Honda and SAAB.

the BMW and the 40 years ago SAAB (i bought it very used) both were easy to operate without looking away from the road.

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