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Your phone is about to stop being yours

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Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#341

Post by plombe »

fainpul wrote: post #136
pngwen wrote: post #68

This change has served me well! I have been a Mac OS X users for years who used an android phone. As soon as google announced their impending walled garden status, I went out and bought into the ios eco system. I have really been enjoying my iphone, ipad, and apple watch. You see, the only value that Android really offered me was the ability to run my own code on my own device. Since they are taking that away that ju…

Even after Google puts this crap in place, you can still uplodad your own apps to your own Android devices, using ADB. Doing the same for iOS, using Xcode, costs you USD 100 or more (depending on country) per year . I'm in no way defending Google here, just pointing out you're going from bad to worse and think it's a good thing.

Not. You don’t need to pay $100 to upload your app to an iPhone, even with XCode for iOS 26

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#342

Post by sigmar »

ok123456 wrote: post #328
fainpul wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even after Google puts this crap in place, you can still uplodad your own apps to your own Android devices, using ADB. Doing the same for iOS, using Xcode, costs you USD 100 or more (depending on country) per year . I'm in no way defending Google here, just pointing out you're going from bad to worse and think it's a good thing.

Isn't keeping ADB enabled (most people who do this don't enable it and then promptly disable it) a huge security problem? ADB enabled means an adversary can completely own your device and "back it up" by simply plugging it in. This is much worse than nagging about "untrusted sources".

>ADB enabled means an adversary can completely own your device and "back it up" by simply plugging it in.

each adb host has to be individually white-listed by an unlocked device. also the current behavior is that it auto forgets any white listed host that hasn't connected within 7 days.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#343

Post by lucb1e »

vrganj wrote: post #255
sunaookami wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not because you can still install apps outside the Play Store. The EU commission buys these "safety" arguments (also worked for Apple, they don't care that you still can't install IPAs) and the DMA is made for businesses, not for end-users. I once wrote them about the Chrome Web Store monopoly but they insist that everything is fine because businesses aren't impacted. They are of course also interested in centra…

It feels like you can draw a pretty clear comparison to the Google Shopping case: https://www.stibbe.com/publications-and-insights/google-shop... It's not enough to provide some crappier way for competition. Just using your dominance to influence the market at all is already monopoly abuse. And of course, businesses are affected. App developers are frequently businesses.

Wouldn't they have fined Apple long ago, if what Google is doing here (a small step less bad than what Apple does) were illegal?

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#344

Post by kube-system »

kodablah wrote: post #299
kube-system wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> . I should be able to give my non-technical friend an apk and they can use it right then Unfortunately that is the same vector that scammers use to drain people's bank accounts

Such is the cost of computing freedom. This line of thinking is analogous to surveillance justifications in meatspace.

The concepts don't need to be at odds with each other.

But also, I don't think that "computing freedom" means you get to use other people's computers without consent. Let's be clear here: Google's requirement for ID only applies to apps distributed from their computer. Presuming that you do actually respect computing freedom, I'd guess you'd support them in this.

I think a good compromise is that they could permit you to sideload. Which they are doing.

But also, if you are very concerned about computing freedom you can also vote with your wallet when you purchase a device.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#345

Post by lucb1e »

larodi wrote: post #94

Phone is yours. Software it runs not.

I realize this is a different discussion, but shouldn't it be? The way that it has been since home computers were a thing, as far as I know at least? I don't think we'd stand where we stand today if Commodore and other hardware vendors had required a license on every piece of software from the get-go (if we pretend that there was a known, exportable, and safe signature scheme back then)

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#346

Post by TFNA »

bee_rider wrote: post #138
brodock wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many countries it's already impossible to use just the web for banking. They either make you install rootkits on your computer or move you to their mobile apps

Wow, that sounds awful. You say country, which makes me wonder—is this the result of a popular type of law or something? I can’t imagine every bank in a country deciding to make that same move. But I live in a large country with lots of banks so I’m sure I have a very biased point of view.

> I can’t imagine every bank in a country deciding to make that same move.

Many countries have only three or four full banks (the kind that can give you a Visa or Mastercard bank card, let you send and receive transfers, etc.), and all of them are making the same moves.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#347

Post by jraph »

bayindirh wrote: post #331
fainpul wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even after Google puts this crap in place, you can still uplodad your own apps to your own Android devices, using ADB. Doing the same for iOS, using Xcode, costs you USD 100 or more (depending on country) per year . I'm in no way defending Google here, just pointing out you're going from bad to worse and think it's a good thing.

Sorry, even as a developer, "but, you can use ADB" is a big big copout. What's the next step when ADB requires some hoops to enable? Will we say that but the eMMC has an unencrypted EXT4 partition, we can just desolder and write into it?

As a dev, i'd say having to use adb is a minor inconvenience.

Still unacceptable, a better option would be to use something like lineage or some other aosp distro without the google services (hoping that nothing makes you dependent on them).

This still doesn't address the vast majority of people though (and that's what I'm concerned about the most).

What we need now is:

- short term, work on pushing apps not to depend on the google services so phones preinstalled with something like /e/ become a viable option for most people. Push our public services to stop mandating Google and Apple OSes for random stuff.

- longer term, work on making alternatives to Android and iOS viable options for most people (stability, usability and availability of services people use). The best candidate for that today is Linux mobile.

Breaking network effect around proprietary services is one of the strategies towards this.

Another one is reducing our reliance on computers (of any shape) altogether, maybe.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#348

Post by munk-a »

pngwen wrote: post #68

This change has served me well! I have been a Mac OS X users for years who used an android phone. As soon as google announced their impending walled garden status, I went out and bought into the ios eco system. I have really been enjoying my iphone, ipad, and apple watch. You see, the only value that Android really offered me was the ability to run my own code on my own device. Since they are taking that away that ju…

Apple still doesn't allow you to control individual app volume to silence/dim certain applications in multi-play mode though, right?

As someone who hates disturbances this is the killer feature that has kept me with samsung - well that and fdroid which is currently endangered.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#349

Post by rybosworld »

latexr wrote: post #321
rybosworld wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While not equivalent to a true iOS app, PWA is a decent option that allows you to circumvent the app store restrictions. If you are trying to build apps primarily for yourself, it's a decent option.

Doesn’t that require you to host it and have it available on the open web, though? Is there a host that allows you to, for free, not only HTML/CSS/JS but also access to arbitrary tools and bespoke scripts on the backend?

Yeah it stands for Progressive Web App - but there are lots of hosting solutions with generous free tiers.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#350

Post by subscribed »

vfclists wrote: post #218
Cider9986 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should switch to GrapheneOS instead.

You mean buy a Google Pixel? How many people can afford one?

That's £105-£150 for first two pixels 6a on ebay.

If you consider getting iPhone you DEFINITELY can afford something much newer than that.

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