Live data from Hacker News

Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

bbc.com

341–350 of 364 posts

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#341
post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US considers it in their strategic interest to maintain peace around the world. We are vicarious beneficiaries of that logic. The same way that a farmer considers it in his pecuniary interest to grow and sell vegetables, and we are vicarious beneficiaries in that we have access to affordable food we can eat. People like you see conspiracies where there is actually nothing but fortuitous alignments of interest. Li…

You're making a textbook strawman argument. While I get the dislike for conspiracy nutjobs, I did not make any such statements or implications. I merely have stated two facts: 1. The USA has put up military infrastructure around the world by its own volition. 2. The USA is the richest country in the world. > The same way that a farmer considers it in his pecuniary interest to grow and sell vegetables, and we are vica…

> While I get the dislike for conspiracy nutjobs, I did not make any such statements or implications

Fair! Withdrawn.

> So what is the handout here, exactly? Your argument is an oxymoron.

I'm not sure how it's an oxymoron. I don't believe I called anything a handout. The fact that others have let themselves become dependent on your behaviour does not make your behaviour a handout to others. The US has made a strategic calculation that defending Europe is of security interest to the US, which has caused it to undertake vast expense on that continent between 1945 and now.

It is an open question whether the US was actually correct in that calculation. Perhaps it was a costly mistake with minimal security benefits for the US but positive externalities for others. Or perhaps it was initially correct, but ceased to be so after the end of the Cold War. Either way, the US may conclude that a continuing presence in Europe no longer serves its security interests going forward. In that case the confluence of interests will simply have ended.

The fact that Europe did not take the many decades it had to prepare for this moment is quite unfortunate, but not really something the US is responsible for. The US has done nothing but encourage Europeans to step up their security efforts for over fifty years. Ultimately it is Europe that faces the consequences of its own decisions, not the US or the rest of the world.

I realise the word 'eurocentrism' is not in vogue, but it is so very apt. If Europe managed to see itself as a region like any other, the way the rest of the world sees it, it may find it easier to understand why the rest of the world does not feel responsible for underwriting the cost of Europe's defense. Why is it America's job to fund the defense of Europe? Why it is not the reverse? Or perhaps Europe should be funding the defense of Southeast Asia? It's certainly got the money. There are far more people in SE Asia than in the EU. They are no less deserving of safety and security than anyone in Europe.

Of course, the reason this doesn't happen is that people cannot just expect free security umbrellas from countries on the other side of the planet. Except Europeans, that is, who for some reason not only do expect this, but also act absolutely outraged when anyone queries this assumption.

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hexane is directly used as a solvent for edible cooking oil refining.

"Understanding Hexane Extraction of Vegetable Oils": * https://www.andersonintl.com/understanding-hexane-extraction... "Towards Substitution of Hexane as Extraction Solvent of Food Products and Ingredients with No Regrets": * https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9655691/ > The extraction process is the same for all eight types of oilseeds subject to this rule (soybean, cottonseed, canola, corn germ, sunflower, sa…

yeah, hexane is the industry standard for extraction... even bio oils are tied to petroleum.

here is comparison on extraction physics vs chemistry for turning it into biodiesel - https://vectree.io/compare/biodiesel-chemical-engineering-vs...

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#343
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It did not. Dimona city got hit. https://t.me/QudsNen/215116 Plant is far away from there.

Why is Iran hitting civilian targets?

Tit for tat usually. Dimona strike in particular was:

"Commander of the IRGC's Aerospace Force, Brigadier General Seyyed Majid Mousavi, says that every ultimatum given to Iran is an act of war. Adds that the Iranian strikes on the strategic points in Dimona and Haifa in recent hours were in response to the US' 2 and 5 day threats."

https://x.com/smajid_moosavi/status/2036828841369301193

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#344
post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making a textbook strawman argument. While I get the dislike for conspiracy nutjobs, I did not make any such statements or implications. I merely have stated two facts: 1. The USA has put up military infrastructure around the world by its own volition. 2. The USA is the richest country in the world. > The same way that a farmer considers it in his pecuniary interest to grow and sell vegetables, and we are vica…

> While I get the dislike for conspiracy nutjobs, I did not make any such statements or implications Fair! Withdrawn. > So what is the handout here, exactly? Your argument is an oxymoron. I'm not sure how it's an oxymoron. I don't believe I called anything a handout. The fact that others have let themselves become dependent on your behaviour does not make your behaviour a handout to others. The US has made a strategi…

Well I got the sentiment from "the Idaho mum paying for Hungary's security". Which I think is a direct segue from "world police", that is, framing America's military deployment around the world as serving no self-interest.

I do agree that there is a possibility that some defence deployment agreements may not longer be desirable for America, and that they are in no way obligated to perpetually defend Europe. NATO had specific goals, which could be considered fulfilled even, long ago.

So for example regarding the Ukraine invasion, there is (or has been lol) an expectation of support from America, both because of some vague NATO-proxy implication or simply due to historical ties. And the Idaho mum not wanting to pay for some far away war is valid, but... we must add two things into this equation. One, an implicit and practical part of the agreement has historically been that the protected allies spend a large amount of their budget on American suppliers. And two, that at least in the past, this was a huge deterrence against any communist-like regime changes that have directly ejected any American neo-colonialism wealth extractions.

Perhaps, today allies are spending less, and the threat of communism has more or less collapsed. So America might be much better off without paying for foreign security. But all this really was never in place out of some noble spirit of world peace, that's all I'm saying.

PD.: a hundred percent agree on Europe being too slow and incapable of reacting to any of this, and embarassing itself. As a European, I hope we can slowly get out of the whining and towards some kind of proper self-defence pact, as many member states actually do have very capable militaries, just individually and not coordinated. I'm not saying, as advanced or experienced as the USA, but if you'd make a "top list" we wouldn't be helpless near the middle or bottom.

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#345
post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While I get the dislike for conspiracy nutjobs, I did not make any such statements or implications Fair! Withdrawn. > So what is the handout here, exactly? Your argument is an oxymoron. I'm not sure how it's an oxymoron. I don't believe I called anything a handout. The fact that others have let themselves become dependent on your behaviour does not make your behaviour a handout to others. The US has made a strategi…

Well I got the sentiment from "the Idaho mum paying for Hungary's security". Which I think is a direct segue from "world police", that is, framing America's military deployment around the world as serving no self-interest. I do agree that there is a possibility that some defence deployment agreements may not longer be desirable for America, and that they are in no way obligated to perpetually defend Europe. NATO had…

I probably can't keep this debate up for too much longer, but know that I hear you. And I hope I was heard in return.

More broadly, I don't think any of us arguing in this thread are really all that far apart. Nothing would please me more than if Europe got its act together. (Hell, I'd love to see a federal Europe. But I'm not holding my breath for that one.)

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#346
post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I got the sentiment from "the Idaho mum paying for Hungary's security". Which I think is a direct segue from "world police", that is, framing America's military deployment around the world as serving no self-interest. I do agree that there is a possibility that some defence deployment agreements may not longer be desirable for America, and that they are in no way obligated to perpetually defend Europe. NATO had…

I probably can't keep this debate up for too much longer, but know that I hear you. And I hope I was heard in return. More broadly, I don't think any of us arguing in this thread are really all that far apart. Nothing would please me more than if Europe got its act together. (Hell, I'd love to see a federal Europe. But I'm not holding my breath for that one.)

[dead]

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#347
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is a net exporter of crude oil and is positioned to meet an oil crisis better than nearly anyone else. What do you think the US government expected from this?

> What do you think the US government expected from this? That they’d beat Iran and have some friendly dictator installed in short order. Are you arguing that this is going how the US planned? When was the last time the US had this much trouble getting its allies to follow it into war?

I think civil servants and military planners in the US were aware of the threat of a global oil shock if Iran closed the Strait of Hormuz. This is a well-known enough scenario that the Battlefield games have maps on Kharg Island. Everyone knows it's Iran's greatest leverage. They even threaten to close the Strait regularly.

The administration would have been informed of the risks to the US, which are relatively minor in comparison since the US is a net exporter of crude, and ignored them. If the risks had been greater, they would not have ignored them, and would have at least had an actual plan to keep the Strait open. They might even have informed their close military allies using something other than Truth Social.

I am not arguing that they planned this, even though it should have been obvious that it would happen. I absolutely do believe they were warned it was a possibility and didn't care.

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#348
post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I got the sentiment from "the Idaho mum paying for Hungary's security". Which I think is a direct segue from "world police", that is, framing America's military deployment around the world as serving no self-interest. I do agree that there is a possibility that some defence deployment agreements may not longer be desirable for America, and that they are in no way obligated to perpetually defend Europe. NATO had…

I probably can't keep this debate up for too much longer, but know that I hear you. And I hope I was heard in return. More broadly, I don't think any of us arguing in this thread are really all that far apart. Nothing would please me more than if Europe got its act together. (Hell, I'd love to see a federal Europe. But I'm not holding my breath for that one.)

Yes I hear you, and moreover I admit that I misheard you in the beginning :)

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#349
post #298
post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can put up a plant in 5 years without erroneous regulation.

Do you have some examples of that in the last decades?

China's been building dozens of them, some going up in 4 years. It's very easy to google this. https://www.reddit.com/r/nuclear/comments/1hsvl0w/chinese_re...

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who want the world to get off fossil fuels want to transition off them as other forms of energy became viable, and work towards that goal. They didn't want 2 madmen to bomb a country right next to an important waterway over some religious nonsense. You know this, and that's why it's bad faith.

> You know this, and that's why it's bad faith. Try to remain calm and not make personal remarks.

I did not insult anyone who will ever read this, but yes, now is the time for decorum when discussing the US government.
Post reply on HN