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People inside Microsoft are fighting to drop mandatory Microsoft Account

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Re: People inside Microsoft are fighting to drop mandatory Microsoft Account

#341

Post by criddell »

john_strinlai wrote: post #334
criddell wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My daughter works at a bank in Canada and she was issued a Macbook.

surprising! what i know of canadian banks is admittedly little, so they might be moving faster than the banks i am familiar with. may i ask what department? do you know if it is managed by intune?

I don't know much. She isn't allowed to talk about any operational details. She just started there a few weeks ago.

And Canadian banks aren't known for moving fast. They are pretty conservative (at least the big chartered banks are).

Re: People inside Microsoft are fighting to drop mandatory Microsoft Account

#342

Post by gamblor956 »

goldenarm wrote: post #60
longislandguido wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Neo costs $200 more than a comparable Windows laptop, but with half the RAM and storage as said comparable Windows laptop. They're fighting to seize the very specific market segment of "I don't like Windows and don't want to use Linux or a Chromebook, and I'm also poor, but still want to pay a premium price for an underpowered tablet with keyboard glued to it."

The specs may be comparable, but not the end result : my $2000 Windows 11 laptop is slower and laggier than the Neo.

You must have some broken hardware.

My $600 2022 corporate laptop is faster and smoother than a $600 Neo, and that's with the corporate spyware crap installed.

Re: People inside Microsoft are fighting to drop mandatory Microsoft Account

#343

Post by antiframe »

TheDong wrote: post #263
zadikian wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does iOS truly require it? I thought that was only if you wanted to use the store.

Being unable to install an alternate app store or sideload my own apps means I need an apple ID to use the computer I purchased. Again, android phones with GrapheneOS or windows machines with linux let me use my hardware fully without creating any advertising-ridden-evil-corporate-company's account, including building and running my own apps. I can't even build my own code for iOS, let alone run it, without an apple…

> windows machines with linux let me use my hardware fully without creating any advertising-ridden-evil-corporate-company's account

Does Windows machines with Linux here mean WSL2 on Windows? I think the problem people have had with Microsoft accounts is exaclty that they need to use a Microsoft account to use their computers and they don't like it.

If it instead means Linux machine (not sure what Windows has to do with it), then I think people are genuinely happy to have the freedom to use their hardware as they see fit without asking for permission or updating Microsoft or Apple.

You can use an Apple computer without an Apple ID and build your own code on it, but that does seem to be a holdout from the old days when Apple had products like the II Plus and System 9. It feels like they're moving towards the Microsoft model of /mandatory/ accounts even for their desktop OS.

Re: People inside Microsoft are fighting to drop mandatory Microsoft Account

#344

Post by saratogacx »

tremon wrote: post #140
herf wrote: post #119

Apple makes a nice distinction between their "app layer" (iCloud drive and Messages, etc.) and the OS login. This would work fine for Windows power users, and for the most part Windows has already had this (your "store" login). But to require the cloud to replace your login, the cloud has to be essential to the functioning of Windows and you have to explain the security implications clearly, and it's not clear that a…

why must I use a low-security PIN in place of your pre-existing password? FAFAIK, all characters that are allowed in a user password are also allowed in device PIN codes. Knowing Microsoft, I'm sure there's domain policies to alter/restrict this. And the idea behind it is sound: that PIN is tied only to a single device, meaning that even if someone watches you enter your device passcode (or uses a keylogger), they ca…

When setting up the PIN you pick for it to be alphaneumaric (There is a option for it) and it acts just like a password field with a silly name.

The reason why it is tied to device isn't to protect against over the shoulder watchers, it is that the resulting key that is stored in the system is unique from system to system so you can't lift the key from one machine and use it on another. Maybe not as useful for a PIN but does make it harder to use a stored key to replace a biometric key so a compromised key doesn't leave every system you've ever logged into vulnerable to a key-auth attack.

Re: People inside Microsoft are fighting to drop mandatory Microsoft Account

#345

Post by antiframe »

DeathArrow wrote: post #173

Maybe Apple will follow suit and won't require an Apple account anymore to be able to use a MacBook.

They do? News to me, and I probably shouldn't update then. I haven't booted my MacBook for a long while but it doesn't have an Apple ID logged into it. I last used my Apple ID when I had an iPhone back in 2016 or so.

Re: People inside Microsoft are fighting to drop mandatory Microsoft Account

#346

Post by autoexec »

kstrauser wrote: post #327
autoexec wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple doesn’t load your computer up with crapware and ads from the five different companies in the supply chain. No apple prefers to have a monopoly on ads and crapware but they're still there. The internet is filled with annoyed apple customers who want to debloat their systems: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254337272 https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/414682/how-can-i-r... https://tech.yahoo.com/ai/…

You didn't read any of those, did you. They're asking about things like, literally: How can I delete the Chess app? How do I disable Spotlight? How do I remove Siri? Those are not in any way comparable to ads or Candy Crush in the start menu.

What is the difference between a chess app and a candy crush app exactly? They are both "Games I didn't ask for, but were preinstalled"

Ads aren't as intrusive or annoying on a mac yet, but they aren't not intrusive or annoying either (https://discussions.apple.com/thread/256235494)

Re: People inside Microsoft are fighting to drop mandatory Microsoft Account

#347

Post by rlpb »

ryandrake wrote: post #255
Rapzid wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with a sizeable background in Linux system engineering.. I prefer Windows to MacOS. It's IMHO a better desktop now with the edge snap tile layout and etc. Excellent device compatibility. And I get my linux environment needs satisfied via WSL2 these days. But damn if they don't get in their own way. I have my own Pro licenses, and even with Pro turning off ads and features is text book whack-a-mole: * Frequ…

This might be obvious, but all of those things have a single common denominator: Microsoft, over you, getting to decide what your computer is doing. This is the biggest generalized danger in computing today: That OS (and device) manufacturers have gotten it in their heads that it's OK for them to have a strong say in what your computer runs. User doesn't want X, Y, or Z running on his computer? TOUGH. We are going to…

> This might be obvious, but all of those things have a single common denominator: Microsoft, over you, getting to decide what your computer is doing.

Sure, but Microsoft have to strike a balance, too. If they push too hard in this direction, they'll lose their users to Macs on one side (probably the majority) and Linux on the other (a minority in number, but perhaps significant in expertise and clout). Once an exodus begins, it's much harder to stop. So where we are in that balance, and the state of user mindshare migration, is still interesting to discuss.

Re: People inside Microsoft are fighting to drop mandatory Microsoft Account

#348

Post by antiframe »

tonymet wrote: post #68

I’m a Windows fan, and I could see this being a pain for OEMs and installers / IT guys – but I don’t see why people are making a huge deal . Windows quality is a much bigger issue: latency, reliability issues, inconsistencies in the UI, etc. Windows account login provides decent value: Bitlocker recovery, device management, Onedrive sync (even the free version), simpler RDP & remote RPC authentication. You won’t even…

I care about this because I don't want to have to get permission from a third party to log into my local computer. It seems like a fundamental part of owning a computer, to me. It's really that simple. If Microsoft made the default to setup or login to a Microsoft Account but had a pretty easy way to opt-out and make a local account, I don't think anyone would care (well maybe some people would prefer the default to be local, but then I'd be with you on asking why they care so much if the bypass is right there a click away). But, they don't let you do that. They require you to get permission to use your own computer, and that's a feel bad.

Re: People inside Microsoft are fighting to drop mandatory Microsoft Account

#349

Post by driverdan »

Too little too late. I've been a Windows user since 2.1. It hasn't always been my primary OS but I've always had it running somewhere. Win 10 LTSC is the last Windows I'll use. I still have it on my desktop but will be moving completely off to Linux.

My dad has also been primarily a Windows user since it existed. A few weeks ago he switched over to Linux, his first time running it.

MS is killing themselves with this mess.

Re: People inside Microsoft are fighting to drop mandatory Microsoft Account

#350

Post by pmontra »

mrweasel wrote: post #335
john_strinlai wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hope they realize that Windows is in significant danger, the majority market share for Desktop OS is not guaranteed anymore. i agree with most of what you said, but this is borderline fantasy. the majority of home market share is not guaranteed, sure. with how good gaming is on non-windows machines now, there isnt much for a home user to get locked-in with (except games that require windows-only malware i.e. anti…

The home market is interesting, because they do need to address that as well. I'm not sure how many people are switching to macs, and even fewer are switching to Linux, That's not Microsofts problem, not on the large scale. If you have a PC at home right now, and you're not technically inclined, and Windows is driving you nuts, you're just not getting a new PC again. More and more people are managing without PCs at h…

That's correct. Furthermore if RAM prices keep going up and staying up, many people won't buy a new PC and they will switch everything on their phones. So the current market could be the undoing of Windows.
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