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Supreme Court Sides with Cox in Copyright Fight over Pirated Music

nytimes.com

341–350 of 369 posts

Re: Supreme Court Sides with Cox in Copyright Fight over Pirated Music

#341
post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably the parent’s objection to ISPs and copyright cartels is precisely that they are so frequently (and to such a large degree) unjust. FWIW, I don’t think the parent’s objection was subtle about that point, I’m frankly not sure how it was overlooked.

Frankly, I don't see how you can't parse that their point, as written, is "I'm on the side of bad guy A because bad guy B is worse than bad guy A" which is completely orthogonal to "A is in the right and B is in the wrong".

Because I'm a native English speaker and "worse" is definitely not orthogonal to "in the wrong".

Re: Supreme Court Sides with Cox in Copyright Fight over Pirated Music

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lost more than they gained (from me, implied). Maybe, just maybe assume the best in people instead of jumping to the worst interpretations you can.

Not sure how interpreted what I said as anything other than the implied you. No matter how much money you did or no longer do spend with Sony is not anything they'd notice. The caveat being you were a flagship purchaser from them which I doubt was the case.

You assumed it was a point of ego, even said as much.

I don't have to buy shit from Sony if I don't want to, and you can't make me.

They definitely lost more on potential hardware sales the past few decades than I would have spent on content... even if it's not enough for them to notice.

Re: Supreme Court Sides with Cox in Copyright Fight over Pirated Music

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could lead to a broader culture, because the most popular works would get long copyright protection terms, while the relatively unpopular ones would get short protection terms. People would be more likely to use those unpopular works and perhaps breathe new life into them. Eg imagine if this is how the system worked right now. You could have streamers watch unpopular (modern) movies with their audience. Or a you…

> You could have streamers watch unpopular (modern) movies with their audience. Or a youtuber could read a book to their viewers (listeners). Why is this something that the government should promote?

It's just an example of culture being more varied than just Disney or Marvel.

Re: Supreme Court Sides with Cox in Copyright Fight over Pirated Music

#344
post #66

Just to try and understand the decision, an analogy that’s coming to mind would be like saying a van manufacturer wouldn’t have liability if it’s used in a bank robbery. However if the manufacturer sold it with the intent for the buyer to use it for bank robbery (the manufacturer having the intent in this case, as well as the robber themselves), then they could become partially liable. Have I got that right?

Yes, I think so. Another analogy is firearms. They can be used to commit or facilitate crimes, yet nobody is suing gun manufacturers.

Federal law says you can't. The PLCAA passed in 2005.

Re: Supreme Court Sides with Cox in Copyright Fight over Pirated Music

#345
post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a lot of people determine what is right by who is on that side - the right side is the group that they identify with, and the wrong side is the group they dislike. And you get the hilarious (if not sad) situations often, where the exact same actions is wrong if committed by one group, and right if done by some other group.

That's not hilarious or sad. It's valid to oppose your enemies and support your allies. It takes a certain kind of educated liberal bubble to think that is "hilarious"

Support your allies, yes.

Think everything they do is right? Hell no.

And every once in a while you need to check if your list of allies should change.

Re: Supreme Court Sides with Cox in Copyright Fight over Pirated Music

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Because we live in a society. New versions of ideas should be available to all of us after a certain amount of time. And I can equally ask why you think others should have the right to control you and stop you from imitating them.

If I can’t come up with a new idea, I don’t deserve to make money from someone else’s

Re: Supreme Court Sides with Cox in Copyright Fight over Pirated Music

#347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we live in a society. New versions of ideas should be available to all of us after a certain amount of time. And I can equally ask why you think others should have the right to control you and stop you from imitating them.

If I can’t come up with a new idea, I don’t deserve to make money from someone else’s

How about personal copies?

But okay, do you apply that logic everywhere? Should restaurants be unable to make any dishes they didn't invent? Automobile manufacturers need to invent a new kind of engine and/or pay licenses based on a thousand year old gear designs?

The concept of a truly new idea is flawed anyway, every new idea is full of old ideas. Both inventions and stories.

A time period where only one person can use an idea is an unnatural state. We create this state anyway for certain benefits, but the longer any particular patent or copyright lasts the more flawed and detrimental it is to enforce it. Once an idea fully soaks through society, nobody should own it.

Re: Supreme Court Sides with Cox in Copyright Fight over Pirated Music

#348

For those like myself who wanted context: > Cox Communications v. Sony Music, 607 U.S.___ (2026), was a United States Supreme Court case regarding the liability of an internet service provider for its subscribers engaging in copyright infringement. > Cox Communications was sued by multiple music labels for lax enforcement of its users engaged in sharing the labels' copyrighted music, arging Cox finacially benefitted…

The only positive thing I can say about Cox is that they fought this fight and won.

Cox stil sucks, no symmetic B/W in 2026? Cox thinks you only need to upload at 10% of the download speed you are paying for. i.e 300Mbit down, 30Mbit up speed limits (just an example).

At least I have options where I am. So many don't.

Re: Supreme Court Sides with Cox in Copyright Fight over Pirated Music

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't "judges making law" a key feature of common law systems? IANAL, obviously, I would know the answer to such a basic question if I were. But this is my understanding, and given that this case is in the US and the US is based on common law, I'm genuinely curious if you're advocating the US change to civil law?

Judge's rulings set precedence. So as a judge you can point to another judge, usually up the chain, and say "this is what those laws mean". Legislators write laws that are very broad and ill defined. Almost on purpose. Then the judges have to figure it out. I don't like that. It is an ill defined spec and we dump the details onto a judge who may or may not have any idea of what is going on.

So what is the difference between "setting precedence" and "making the law" in your view? Essentially there isn't one? I think legislators write vague laws not almost on purpose, but absolutely with purpose: to leave it up to the judge to interpret. But then, you don't like that judges exercise judgement, which is frankly really quite puzzling to me. That is explicitly their job, it's right there in the name. But why don't you like that? Oftentimes, someone has to figure it out. Why not someone who is used to exercising good judgement? You're absolutely right that it's an ill-defined spec, but we're not gathering requirements to develop some application, we're talking about law?

Re: Supreme Court Sides with Cox in Copyright Fight over Pirated Music

#350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the thought is that the copyright value accrued out of some accident and thus, the owner does not deserve its value . The owner deserves to make as much money from their product as they can, but they should only be able to exclusively profit from that work in any form for 10 years. That's entirely fair. Copyright isn't the natural order of things. It's an extraordinary restriction on our freedoms. If I hear a song,…

You are conflating copyright with free expression. That's not correct and the law is clear on this respect. No one has standing to sue you if you decide to sing in public a Michael Jackson song. However, the moment you start selling tickets to the presentation, that's something entirely different. You are literally leveraging the fact that someone put that song on the map. You didn't create it. You didn't promote it.…

> You are conflating copyright with free expression.

No, copyright is a direct infringement on free expression. We've just tolerated it because the trade off was worth it. Not worth it because people would get rich and that was import to us. Worth it because having a chance to make money on a creative work encourages the creation of more creative works and having more creative works was important to us.

I'm sure that there were many times in history when someone came up with a good story and got mad that somebody else told a version of that story that others liked better. Not only is the ability to share stories more important than that one guy's feelings, but the result is better stories for everybody. Once people starting selling their creative works and it became easier to copy them we agreed that it was important that people had an opportunity to make money off their efforts so we'd have more works and that's where we started limiting people's freedom. When those limits are reasonable, it's a good deal. A balance where briefly people wouldn't be able to copy someone's work so they had a chance to make money and then later everybody could do whatever they wanted with it.

Recently the media industry has bribed their way into making the restrictions increasingly unreasonable, but we still want people to be able to have a chance to make money on their work so we just need to readjust to something more like what copyright started out as and less like what it's become.

> No one has standing to sue you if you decide to sing in public a Michael Jackson song.

That's wrong. There are performance rights (see https://copyrightlately.com/glossary/public-performance/) and it just requires you to have a public "audience". This is an issue that cover bands (https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/rocking-without-regrets-truth...) and karaoke singers run into and the way it's handled is that the venues are typically licensed to allow it.

Performance rights were what kept restaurants from singing happy birthday to their customers or paying Warner/Chappell for the privilege until a lawsuit clarified that they didn't have the rights to the song in the first place. By that point they'd already collected 50,000,000 in license fees though because performance rights are real and enforceable.

Realistically, nobody is going to sue you for singing a copyrighted song in public around others, but they could and there's a decent chance you'd lose that legal battle. Similarly, many small businesses will have a radio on or a CD playing that their customers can hear. They can be sued for that as well. Enforcement in that setting is rare enough though that small players take their chances, but big companies with fat wallets are prime targets for lawsuits so they tend to have a licensed solution to avoid massive fines.

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