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The American Healthcare Conundrum

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Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#341

Post by pjc50 »

legitster wrote: post #91
graemep wrote: post #60

> The US spends ~$14,570 per person on healthcare. Japan spends ~$5,790 and has the highest life expectancy in the OECD. That gap is roughly $3 trillion per year. The difference in life expectancy will be influenced by multiple factors and may have more to do with diet and lifestyle than with healthcare. Japan also spends less per capita than the UK, France or Germany. The US spends a lot more than any of those so th…

The US also has GDP per capita of $90k and Japan has a GDP per capita of ~ $35k. Put another way, in both countries a hip replacement surgery is almost exactly 1/8 of someone's per capita GDP.

This is called "purchasing power parity". There's an official index for it, as well as ad hoc measures like the Economist Big Mac Index.

To some extent it's circular: the US has a higher number of GDP because it spends more on healthcare. The broken leg version of the broken window fallacy.

Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#342

Post by klipt »

Vinnl wrote: post #330
elgertam wrote: post #329

I see a lot of the comments operating from an empirical framing. This is valid analysis and is good; we should want to understand the waste in the system as it stands. However, that isn't enough. US healthcare is wildly inefficient because the paying customer is different than the serves customer. This has been known for sixty years, since Arrow published his paper (he identified four reasons, three of which are not…

And yet it is still vastly more inaccessible and inefficient than other countries where the same holds. There is a lot that could be learned from other countries. So it's good to see that this repo does so.

I notice the repo has no data on supply of doctors per person in different countries. It's well known that the US residency system with its limited slots constrains the supply of doctors who can practice in the US.

Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#343

Post by pjc50 »

graemep wrote: post #60

> The US spends ~$14,570 per person on healthcare. Japan spends ~$5,790 and has the highest life expectancy in the OECD. That gap is roughly $3 trillion per year. The difference in life expectancy will be influenced by multiple factors and may have more to do with diet and lifestyle than with healthcare. Japan also spends less per capita than the UK, France or Germany. The US spends a lot more than any of those so th…

Japan has an age fraud problem which inflates its life expectancy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sogen_Kato

"The discovery of Kato's remains sparked a search for other missing centenarians lost due to poor recordkeeping by officials. A study following the discovery of Kato's remains found that police did not know if 234,354 people over the age of 100 were still alive".

Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#344

Post by bojangleslover »

graemep wrote: post #60

> The US spends ~$14,570 per person on healthcare. Japan spends ~$5,790 and has the highest life expectancy in the OECD. That gap is roughly $3 trillion per year. The difference in life expectancy will be influenced by multiple factors and may have more to do with diet and lifestyle than with healthcare. Japan also spends less per capita than the UK, France or Germany. The US spends a lot more than any of those so th…

The US has a high variance population. Aggregating the US into a single mean or median for that matter is a fool's errand.

Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#346

Post by pif »

TuringNYC wrote: post #327

The problems are so vast it is difficult to even describe to outsiders. For example, if I purchase a particular medication at a local pharmacy, it costs $25. However, my insurer mandates that I purchase it via their Pharmacy Benefit Managers (PBM) Optum, which charges $125. Easy enough right, you price shop? Well then it doesnt count towards your deductible. The whole thing is an elaborate trap to not pay. Sometimes…

[dead]

Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#347

Post by alexfoo »

TuringNYC wrote: post #327

The problems are so vast it is difficult to even describe to outsiders. For example, if I purchase a particular medication at a local pharmacy, it costs $25. However, my insurer mandates that I purchase it via their Pharmacy Benefit Managers (PBM) Optum, which charges $125. Easy enough right, you price shop? Well then it doesnt count towards your deductible. The whole thing is an elaborate trap to not pay. Sometimes…

This always baffles me.

There’s so much rampant profiteering in the US healthcare system it’s unbelievable. Other countries look at it from afar in utter disbelief. I’m glad I had no serious health problems when I lived there 25 years ago (and I had health insurance via my employer).

In the UK prescriptions are effectively capped at about USD125 per year:

https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/help-nhs-prescription-costs/nhs-pr...

I recently collected 4 prescriptions from my local pharmacy (3 for temporary conditions, the other one was ADHD meds which I’ll be on for the foreseeable future) and the pharmacy didn’t even want to see proof of my prepayment certificate, I just said I had one and they ticked the relevant box and handed me the prescriptions.

(The implication is that the NHS will check this and come after me if I was lying.)

Don’t get me wrong, there’s lots wrong with the UK healthcare system but the access to regular medication has very few barriers.

Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#350

Post by mdorazio »

dv_dt wrote: post #296
nine_k wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly not marketing (still large), but the R&D costs and clinical trial costs. The latter are in hundreds of millions to billions range for the entire journey from a promising discovery to an FDA-approved medicine.

Every time Ive looked into it marketing is more than half of the costs of US pharma companies - and I would suspect even more as don't know if there has much work to unmask even more of that spending via channels that can occur in ways not obviously marked as marketing or at least are really not core to research and manufacturing. e.g. is all the "discount coupon" pharmacy rigamarole considered marketing or administr…

This is not correct. Here's Pfizer's 2025 annual report [1]. Total expenses for the year were $55.1 billion. Advertising expenses were $2.7 billion of that, or just under 5%. R&D expenses were $12.1 billion, or just under 22%. They do have a lot of SG&A, but the large majority of that is not going to marketing.

[1] https://d18rn0p25nwr6d.cloudfront.net/CIK-0000078003/908eb6a...

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