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“This is not the computer for you”

samhenri.gold

341–350 of 390 posts

Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#341
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chromebooks themselves can actually be great machines for hacking (in the traditional sense, not the modern security/jailbreaking sense). E.g. https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/9145439?hl=en is arguably better than a direct typical Linux install because it's an isolated environment which won't break the main function of the device as you tinker. As the page notes though, the real problem for kids is the de…

I mostly agree. Just one thing: > (in the traditional sense, not the modern security/jailbreaking sense) As far as I can tell, the two senses have pretty much always existed side by side. Nothing traditional vs modern about it.

The more common "modern" definition popularized in the ~90s lacks the non-malicious meaning regardless which side of the "did hacker originally include both usages or not" debate one sits on. That doesn't mean the original definition ever went away though of course!

Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#343
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For them to call it Bootcamp 2 (a "product" per se), they'd have had to have another OS they could actually demo installing. Otherwise "Bootcamp 2" is just a mysterious empty chooser window. But at the time there was nothing, because Apple Silicon wasn't a platform anyone but them was targeting, because they had just created it. So they built the infrastructure, and then waited for someone to actually start taking ad…

> And because that "someone" isn't a bigcorp (i.e. Microsoft) wanting to do a co-marketing push, but just FOSS people gradually building something but never quite "launching" a 1.0 of it — Apple just "acknowledged" it quietly, at developer conferences, exposing it only via developer-centric CLI tooling, rather than with the sort of polished UI experience they would need if Microsoft was trying to convince Joe Excel U…

> possibly since Windows license sales are effectively a rounding error to Microsoft at this point; they make way more off of subscription services and/or Office, all of which are already available on macOS without having to dual-boot Windows

AFAICT, the way Microsoft wants things to work, is that "Windows" is the native fat-client platform / SDK that ISVs are supposed to use/target when building fat-client apps that interact with (i.e. generate spend on) Azure-based backend systems. The #1 way Microsoft makes money at this point isn't from direct consumer or even volume-licensed subscriptions; it's from providing paid backend infra to dev shops who had long since locked themselves into the Microsoft/Windows development ecosystem, and who therefore saw Azure as the only valid cloud backend to integrate with when "cloud-enabling" their software (and/or, where the compliance story of integrating their previously native-and-local-syncing software with Azure, was 100x simpler than with integrating with any other cloud, due to Azure+Windows being able to act as a trusted principal-agent pair that can enforce policy-based security via a shared "cloud domain" identity [Entra ID] baked right into the OS ACL layer.)

Until recently, though, Microsoft thought of the Windows "platform" the same way Apple do of the Mac "platform": that "Windows"-the-platform-SDK was the same thing as Windows-the-OS. Which necessarily meant that consumers must be pushed with all conceivable effort toward using Windows-the-OS on their machines, so that these dev shops who had targeted Windows-the-SDK could reach them with their software (so that those dev shops would in turn spend more on Azure.)

But I think this equivalence is going away!

From what I've seen of discussions in various Microsoft-aligned sources recently, it feels to me like some part of what Windows 12 may mean by calling itself a "modular OS", is that Microsoft may be establishing some kind of very clean boundary layer between Windows-the-OS and Windows-the-platform/SDK.

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What would that look like? I don't know for sure, but here's some spitballing:

Picture Mono, but as a complete UWP projection, shipping with all the native libraries that are built into Windows.

Or, if you'd prefer, picture Wine/Proton; but rather than black-box-reverse-engineered equivalents to Windows DLLs, it is all the DLLs that come with Windows. Except, now rebuilt from the ground up so that they compile against NTOS or Mach or Linux syscalls.

Basically, "the complete Windows platform" as a JVM-like runtime you "get for free" when installing Windows-the-OS, but can install on top of macOS and Linux. (Probably in various runtime profiles, as with Embedded vs Server vs Desktop JREs. You don't need D3D on your server.)

This would be likely to take 100% of the wind out of the sails of the Wine/Proton projects overnight. And maybe kill Mono itself, too. After all, why bother with half-assed third-party implementations of the Windows Platform, when you can just install the "real" Windows Platform, and get guaranteed bug-for-bug compatibility with existing Windows software (relying on the same databases of app shims and fixes Windows-the-OS has shipped with for ~forever)?

SteamOS would be reduced to "a Linux distro that preinstalls the Windows Platform." ReactOS might or might not (depends on stubbornness) be reduced to "a clean-room-implemented NTOSKRNL-compatible base OS, that preinstalls the Windows target of the Windows Platform."

Wine/Proton themselves would, if they even bothered to keep going, end up rebranded as "an alternative ground-up Windows Platform runtime." (If the official "Windows Platform runtime" was then open-sourced, then likely Wine/Proton would fully fade into obscurity, as anyone who wanted to maintain their own libre Windows Platform runtime would just start by forking Microsoft's. Very similar to the situation with OpenJDK.)

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In any case, regardless of how they do it, any move in this direction would make it blindingly obvious why Microsoft wouldn't care about enabling something like a "Boot Camp 2" feature on Macs any more: they no longer care if you install Windows-the-OS on a Mac; they rather want you to install the Windows Platform runtime under macOS. And then they'll have you as a consumer of Windows Platform products all the same.

(Actually, even better, as they'll have you far more of the time. In the Boot Camp business strategy, any time you spend booted into macOS puts you out of Microsoft's reach, save for the few first-party apps Microsoft has ported to macOS + sells on the App Store. In the Windows Platform business strategy, meanwhile, you can be running arbitrary Windows Platform apps on your Mac [and so generating Azure spend for some ISV somewhere] 100% of the time you're using it!)

Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#344

> A Chromebook’s ceiling is made of web browser, and the things you run into are not the edges of computing but the edges of a product category designed to save you from yourself. I'm in the same boat as the author; I cut my teeth on a hand-me-down 2005 eMac, then a hand-me-down 2008 Macbook, before finally getting my own 2011 iMac. I think this is overly harsh on Chromebooks given they belong to the cheaper end of t…

I went through a two-year period where I didn't have a decent job and couldn't afford a computer of any kind for myself. I ended up spending some time volunteering for a local non-profit, and they gave me an "old laptop" they had in storage. This was in ~2005.

It was a Sony Vaio, and the only thing I really remember about the hardware/specs is that it had a physical scroll widget under the touchpad on the edge of the case. Software-wise, it was running some relatively locked down version of Windows. I installed Arch on it and used it to rebuild and manage the non-profit's website.

The other thing that I remember from it is that it was my entrance into using the terminal as my primary interface - the first place I used Vim regularly, and the first time I'd installed tmux. One day I was trying to test a dropdown or something on their website, and discovered that my touchpad didn't work. It turned out to have been broken by an Arch update, which wasn't terribly surprising. What was surprising is that once I'd traced down the issue and corrected it, I realized that it had been broken for almost two weeks. I'd used that computer every day and hadn't needed to use a mouse even once.

Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#345
As a kid, I grew up before laptops became hugely popular, so instinctively my thought was, of course a MacBook (indeed any MacBook) is not the computer for a kid; the Mac mini or an iMac is. The author started with a 2006 Core 2 Duo iMac inside the kitchen and he should know this. The simplest and easiest parental supervision that doesn’t involve any software is to have a desktop machine in the living room, within the peripheral vision of parents. Watching some videos that you shouldn’t be watching? Dad comes and tells you why not. Want to bring the computer to your bedroom and eschew sleep? Physically impossible. Playing a game for an hour? Dad comes and tells you it’s enough. But learning about formulas in Excel? He comes and offers to answer your questions.

Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#346

> A Chromebook’s ceiling is made of web browser, and the things you run into are not the edges of computing but the edges of a product category designed to save you from yourself. I'm in the same boat as the author; I cut my teeth on a hand-me-down 2005 eMac, then a hand-me-down 2008 Macbook, before finally getting my own 2011 iMac. I think this is overly harsh on Chromebooks given they belong to the cheaper end of t…

Man I got a computer engineering degree in 2015 with a $200 Chromebook chrooted into Debian. And I worked professionally for years on an 8gb MacBook Air. The Neo is definitely something younger me would be interested in.

The problem is like all Apple stuff it's just needlessly limiting and has few advantages over alternatives.

Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#347
post #340

> A Chromebook’s ceiling is made of web browser, and the things you run into are not the edges of computing but the edges of a product category designed to save you from yourself. I'm in the same boat as the author; I cut my teeth on a hand-me-down 2005 eMac, then a hand-me-down 2008 Macbook, before finally getting my own 2011 iMac. I think this is overly harsh on Chromebooks given they belong to the cheaper end of t…

A kid looking for the best bang for the carefully saved buck would buy a used machine off eBay, for less than $599, and more capable. An M1 MBP 2021 with 16GB would cost about this much; an M1 Macbook Air, or an M1 Mac Mini with 16 GB would cost half as much. A ton of beefy, perfectly Linux-ready used laptops can be had for under $350. So this is only for the kids who are obsessed not just with computers, but brand-n…

It's also for parents who want to give their kids a "real computer" without breaking the bank.

My 12-year-old wanted a laptop to build mods for games. I got her a new M1 Macbook 8GB - $425 from Walmart, refurbished.

My 17-year-old wanted a laptop for college, but wasn't sure what she needed or wanted yet. I gave her my 2020 M1 MBP.

If either of those situations arose today, I'd get them a Neo.

Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autism is a quite strong diagnosis at the end of a spectrum. Not every tech-loving introvert is autistic. That's the kind of arrogant attitude that marginalizes nerds and on a forum like HN people really ought to know better. As somebody who identified a lot with what's in that article I can say that I haven't just made peace with having been "different" but I love it and wouldn't want it any different comparing my l…

Would you give it a rest? It's being used here as a colloquial term that's distinct from an actual medical diagnosis.

The colloquial use of the word “autism” carries with it a specific connotation and mind image. That primarily negative stereotype is being reinforced by the joke by way of it being delivered as a medical diagnosis (“the results are back”).

Your parent comment is arguing against perpetuating the wrong negative connotations and lack of understanding of autism.

Not to say the original author was doing it maliciously, I don’t think they were.

Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprisingly enough you don’t need Linux to learn about computers. You know that Macs have terminal?

The default Mac terminal environment is the Weetabix of UNIX-likes. You need GNU coreutils to do pretty much anything.

My first unix was ultrix. I'll take the default mac stuff over that any day of the week.
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