Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Innocent woman jailed after being misidentified using AI facial recognition

grandforksherald.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

341–350 of 417 posts

Re: Innocent woman jailed after being misidentified using AI facial recognition

#341

Post by tgv »

caconym_ wrote: post #102
whack wrote: post #51

> According to the court documents, the Fargo detective working the case then looked at Lipps' social media accounts and Tennessee driver's license photo. In his charging document, the detective wrote that Lipps appeared to be the suspect based on facial features, body type and hairstyle and color. > Once they were in hand, Fargo police met with him and Lipps at the Cass County jail on Dec. 19. She had already been i…

This particular "AI bogeyman" isn't just AI; it's cops with AI and in particular cops with facial recognition tools, dragnet LPR surveillance tools, and all this other new technology that essentially picks somebody's name out of a hat to have their life temporarily (or [semi-]permanently) ruined by shithead cops who won't ever face any real accountability. This keeps happening, and the reason it keeps happening is th…

> cops [...] should not have access to these tools

But what else can (identification via) face recognition be (safely) used for? Absolutely nothing. It's tech that's just made for surveillance.

Re: Innocent woman jailed after being misidentified using AI facial recognition

#342

Post by onetokeoverthe »

stego-tech wrote: post #132

I really, really need folks to understand that deflecting blame away from the tool and trying to hold the human accountable feeds right into the marketing playbook of these companies in the first place. The cops cannot be held accountable because the laws basically give them immunity. The politicians cannot be held accountable beyond being tossed out at the next election, because the laws otherwise give them immunity…

[dead]

Re: Innocent woman jailed after being misidentified using AI facial recognition

#343

Post by tgv »

whack wrote: post #51

> According to the court documents, the Fargo detective working the case then looked at Lipps' social media accounts and Tennessee driver's license photo. In his charging document, the detective wrote that Lipps appeared to be the suspect based on facial features, body type and hairstyle and color. > Once they were in hand, Fargo police met with him and Lipps at the Cass County jail on Dec. 19. She had already been i…

> How is this the fault of AI?

I'll reply to the top of the discussion too: it's because it was purely made for this purpose. There's no use for it outside surveillance. And it's not even good enough. It's only purpose is checking boxes and transferring money. Miscarriage of justice is an unfortunate, but calculated side effect.

Re: Innocent woman jailed after being misidentified using AI facial recognition

#344

Post by rithdmc »

rectang wrote: post #2

> facial recognition showed she was the main suspect in what Fargo police called an organized bank fraud case. > Her bank records showed she was more than 1,200 miles away, at home in Tennessee at the same time police claimed she was in Fargo committing fraud. > Unable to pay her bills from jail, she lost her home, her car and even her dog

The concept of pre-trial detention is nuts to me. In Ireland, sensibly, you can not set bail that is insurmountable to the defendant.

Re: Innocent woman jailed after being misidentified using AI facial recognition

#345

Post by rithdmc »

tlogan wrote: post #337

This has nothing to do with AI. There are also a few questions that remain unanswered: - Did she have previous arrests, and did they use booking photos to identify her? I found someone named Angela Lipps who was arrested in 2001, 2003, 2017, and 2019. The 2017 arrest was for a probation violation: https://archive.ph/CpmXu The 2019 arrest was for public intoxication: https://archive.ph/yjFL9 - Another confusing detail…

Appealing to authority ("The AI said it was her!") is absolutely a problem.

Re: Innocent woman jailed after being misidentified using AI facial recognition

#346

Post by JuniperMesos »

blagie wrote: post #61
Jtsummers wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may protect them personally, but not the city and the department itself from being sued.

Nope. https://abovethelaw.com/2016/02/criminally-yours-indicting-a... You can be arrested, indicted, and held in jail on pretrial, and there is literally no recourse. There are many other ways jail can happen without due process. Where I live: * Civil contempt. Absolutely immunity. No due process. Record is about 16 years. Having a bad day? Judge can toss you in jail. * "Dangerous." Half a year. No due process. He-sa…

> "Insane." Psychiatric hold. Three days. Due process on paper, not in practice. Police in my town can and do use this if they don't like you.

And there are definitely insane people who are a threat to themselves and others who wander around, making the streets and public transit systems unsafe and unpleasant, who need to be put into something like a psychiatric hold by something like the police.

And if you don't have police and a criminal justice system that are willing and able to impose psychiatric holds, you wind up with a bunch of incidents where a crazy mentally-ill vagrant kills someone in a public (the Iryna Zarutska murder, or any of the various cases where a homeless person randomly shoves someone into the path of an oncoming train at a public transit station); or incidents where someone else gets railroaded by the criminal justice system for intervening in a crazy mentally-ill person threatening people around them (the Daniel Penny incident - many people, even nominal anti-carceralists, are upset that he was not successfully convicted and incarcerated for murder). Not to mention all the less-newsworthy incidents where insane people walking the streets and public transit systems systematically ruin them for everyone else, either through vandalism or theft or simply screaming incoherently at people as they try to use the public commons.

It's certainly possible for the police to abuse psychiatric holds if they don't like you; on the other hand, the existence of large numbers of people who should be in some kind of psychiatric hold but aren't disrupting and vandalizing the public commons is one of the biggest quality of life and physical safety problems in my region and in many other American urban areas.

Re: Innocent woman jailed after being misidentified using AI facial recognition

#347

Post by JuniperMesos »

FpUser wrote: post #213
abduhl wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Civil contempt isn't some roving criminal charge that jumps out of the jury box randomly. It's meant to make somebody comply with a court order. Anybody in civil contempt holds the keys to the jailhouse door in their own hands, all they have to do is comply. This statement should make you uncomfortable. It makes me uncomfortable because it is a pure expression of the power of the state. But it's still due process.

In Criminal Contempt max duration of imprisonment is limited. In civil it is not until somebody decides that one never complies. You may call it due process. I call it for what it is - A torture and fucking crime against humanity. Judge that holds person for years for being stubborn deserves nothing more than walk the plank

Any power that could force a judge to actually walk the plank for what they see as an abuse of power, is itself something like a state, that could just as easily wield that power against the stubborn defendant.

Re: Innocent woman jailed after being misidentified using AI facial recognition

#348

Post by Gibbon1 »

mrweasel wrote: post #304
rglover wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is this the fault of AI? It flagged a possible match. A live human detective confirmed it. Because we're seeing the first instances of what reality looks like with AI in the hands of the average bear. Just like the excuse was "but the computer said it was correct," now we're just shifting to "but the AI said it was correct." Don't underestimate how much authority and thinking people will delegate to machines. N…

It's only recently some have come to terms with the fact that DNA evidence sometimes returns false positives. Society, and law enforcement, assumed that DNA was infallible. No one apparently wondered millions of people could be reduced to a tiny number of genetic markers apparently having no overlap. Danish police had to redo 20.000 DNA tests with a larger set of markeres begin tested, because they jailed someone bas…

There was a man arrested in Santa Clara county because his DNA was tracked to a murder scene by the paramedics that treated him before they were called to the scene of the murder. He only got away with it because the public defender realized that he was in the hospitals detox at the time of the murder.

Re: Innocent woman jailed after being misidentified using AI facial recognition

#349

Post by bmitch3020 »

stego-tech wrote: post #132

I really, really need folks to understand that deflecting blame away from the tool and trying to hold the human accountable feeds right into the marketing playbook of these companies in the first place. The cops cannot be held accountable because the laws basically give them immunity. The politicians cannot be held accountable beyond being tossed out at the next election, because the laws otherwise give them immunity…

You can blame both. The prosecutors and police that didn't do their proper due diligence, falsely imprisoning this woman, and held her for months without due process. And also the AI company that submitted a false police report and the defamation of character. There's no reason for either of them to escape the blame.

Re: Innocent woman jailed after being misidentified using AI facial recognition

#350

Post by theandrewbailey »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #60
rpcope1 wrote: post #10

There's no way this isn't a slam dunk case to sue the piss out of the Fargo Police, probably the US Marshals and maybe other orgs. The woman in the surveillance phone clearly looks way younger, among the many other obvious signs this woman didn't do it. I hope she wrings at least several million dollars out of the government.

“Unable to pay her bills from jail, she lost her home, her car and even her dog.” Who stole her dog?!

I'd love for her to go John Wick on those responsible.
Post reply on HN