TikTok and other social media apps' business models are antithetical to privacy.
TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
341–350 of 458 posts
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#342Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you are a grown adult and dont do research on “messaging apps” (which Tik Tok is not) then thats really on you.
This viewpoint isn't a slippery slope, it's a runaway train. "You moved into a neighborhood with lead pipes? That's on you, should have done more research" "Your vitamins contained undisclosed allergens? You're an adult, and it didn't say it DIDN'T contain those" "Passwords stolen because your provider stored them in plaintext? They never claimed to store them securely, so it's really on you"
this isn't anything new, however. No messaging has been actually private since forever, that's why encryption was invented. To keep secrets and to pass those secrets in a way that can be observed without revealing the secret.
Telephones can be tapped, people sold special boxes that would encrypt/decrypt that audio before passing it to the phone or to the ear. Mail can be opened, covertly or not. AIM was in the clear (I think at one point, fully in the clear, later probably in the clear as far as the aol servers were concerned)...
Unless the app/method is directly lying to users about being e2ee it's not a slippery slope, it's the status quo. Now there are some apps out there that I think i've seen that are lying. They are claiming they are 'encrypted' but fail to clarify that it's only private on the wire, like the aim story.. the message is encrypted while it flys to the 'switchboard' where it's plain text and then it's put wrapped in encryption on the wire to send it to the recipient.
The claim here that actually makes me chuckle is somehow trying to paint e2ee as 'unsafe' for users.
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#343Earlier quoted context omitted.
The email protocols would like to have a chat with you.
You can bring your own encryption to that, and bring your own client to automate it.
you can bring your own encryption to ANY messaging platform, doesn't mean it will be easy to use. e2ee just really makes it handy so that users don't need to preshare any keys.
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#344Earlier quoted context omitted.
excuse me, I confused "Private messages" (pm) for "Direct messages" (dm). I will update above
I don't think you confused anything, except for the terminology the platform uses. There is an obvious expectation of privacy when sending direct messages!
Hasn't been true ANYTIME IN HISTORY. Hell it was well understood even by children that no conversation you had on the telephone was truly private. That's why cyphers were invented.
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#345Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Both executives mention the danger end-to-end encryption poses to children when attached to a social media graph So the fact that we welded a messaging platform onto a global-child-discovery-service is bad? Sure. Not encrypting that messaging platform is sort of closing the barn door after the horse has gone walkabout
It is a considerably larger threat for anonymous strangers to be able to establish private lines of communication with children than for them to know that Lisa Simpson (8) lives in Springfield and attends Springfield Elementary. In terms of discovery, most people are already aware that children can be found in school.
I don't see how you arrive at that conclusion? The risk in being able to connect to a random victim somewhere in the world appears to be strictly less than being able to target a specific victim in your local geographical area to whom you could gain physical access
Hence why nobody up in arms (in either direction) about e2e encryption for Chatroulette
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#346DMs are akin to private conversations in real life. Thus, every DM feature should entail E2EE. It’s ok for a platform to not feature private conversations. They should just have no DM feature at all, then; make all messages publicly visible. Private conversations are indeed not for all ages. Parents should be able to grant access to that on individual basis.
> DMs are akin to private conversations in real life
There are parents out there who would record and AI-analyze every single private conversation their kids have if only the technology enabled it.
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#347Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tiktok has private messaging, and it is used by hundreds of millions of people. IMO no consumer service should have private 1:1 messaging without e2e. Either only do public messaging (ie. Like a forum), or implement e2e.
Tiktok has direct messages, they don't even call them private. It's better that they're honest about this, nobody should believe for a second that WhatsApp or FB messages are truly E2EE. DM on social media shouldn't be used for anything remotely private. It's a convenience feature, nothing more.
Honestly I'm tired with every app trying to become the everything app.
Now TikTok wants to be a messaging app. Snapchat has a short video feed just like TikTok. WhatsApp only has a text feed, how long until they also add a video feed?
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#348Earlier quoted context omitted.
> nobody should believe for a second that WhatsApp or FB messages are truly E2EE That's interesting. You think all firms that audited WhatsApp and Signal protocol used by WhatsApp and all programmers who worked there for decades and can see a lie and leak if it was true are all crooks? valid opinion I guess, but I won't call it "no one should believe for a second (curious you didn't mention Telegram, it is actually m…
I forget if its WhatsApp that technically lets you sync chats in unencrypted form to iCloud which is the “loophole” around this, though you can lockdown your iCloud even tighter, not sure it Apple can do much if you fully lock down your iCloud, not sure if this has been legally tested? Its not a very advertised feature its just a setting.
iCloud backups are encrypted, and can be end-to-end encrypted.
Also, backups have nothing to do with the messages being end-to-end encrypted. Like if you don't use a passcode on the phone, the messages are still encrypted.
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#349lol
It makes sense - they extract every possible bit of personal information from your device - why would they make you believe they care about your privacy?
You want to communicate privately? TikTok is not the place, and that’s ok. shrugs
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#350Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tiktok has direct messages, they don't even call them private. It's better that they're honest about this, nobody should believe for a second that WhatsApp or FB messages are truly E2EE. DM on social media shouldn't be used for anything remotely private. It's a convenience feature, nothing more.
Honestly I'm tired with every app trying to become the everything app. Now TikTok wants to be a messaging app. Snapchat has a short video feed just like TikTok. WhatsApp only has a text feed, how long until they also add a video feed?
Meta already has video feeds in facebook and instagram though, I imagine they wouldn’t want to detract users from those