Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Keep Android Open

f-droid.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

341–350 of 764 posts

Re: Keep Android Open

#341

Post by fsflover »

observationist wrote: post #340
fsflover wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My phone has hardware kill switches for modem, WiFi/Bluetooth and mic/camera. All three together also kill all sensors.

If it's got a sim card, it's still phoning home and providing location data. You can't escape the panopticon. A faraday bag gets you mostly there, though, but the point isn't that you can maneuver against it, it's that the device and its operation is fundamentally compromised by design. There's a whole lot of shady crap underlying the infrastructure and the hardware that consumers cannot touch, pinephone / librephone…

> If it's got a sim card, it's still phoning home and providing location data

Only when the kill switch is on. I control it.

Also, it's possible to get AweSIM service hiding your data from the mobile operators.

Re: Keep Android Open

#342

Post by flaburgan »

necovek wrote: post #320
anonzzzies wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand why mobile/tablet OSs are so crappy compared to desktop; in the past these devices had no resources cpu and ram wise and had to heavily watch battery consumption (the latter is still true mostly, but that should be up to the user), but my phone is more powerful than my laptop and yet runs crap with no real usable filesystem and all kinds of other weirdness that's no longer needed. However, I have 2 Linux…

FWIW, Nokia did develop a pretty good Linux phone back in the day (Maemo/Meego) with Nokia N9 (it even received rave reviews from consumer tech sites like engadget), but it did get killed off as they got absorbed into Microsoft (we all know that didn't age well). Similarly, Palm Pre, and especially HP Pre 3 was a wonderful WebOS incarnation. Ubuntu Touch did seem like it had a future, but it was a massive sink for Ca…

Ubuntu Touch is not dead though, I use it happily on my primary device for 8 years. It's working like a charm. And waydroid allows you to run APKs, even if some bank apps may not work.

Re: Keep Android Open

#343

Post by pino83 »

fermigier wrote: post #62

It is a disgrace how Google has managed this situation. To recap the storyline, as far as I understand it: last August, Google announced plans to heavily restrict sideloading. Following community pushback, they promised an "advanced flow" for power users. The media widely reported this as a walk-back, leading users to assume the open ecosystem was safe. But this promised feature hasn't appeared in any Android 16 or 1…

Good news: You (as a community) can now finally wake up from your dreams and get some things right!

It's really a shame that you always wait until you really get forced. Particularly in situations when every individual's inability has consequences for the others as well. I really gave up all ideas of a better world. With this community, the best you can hope is that the decay will be slow.

So everyone who would describe himself/herself as a FOSS enthusiast, or at least a friend of a somewhat open system where the user has some actual rights beyond sole consumption, put some pressure towards having actually de-Googled systems. A system that mostly comes from Google, would not fit my definition of that term at all! Even if they removed some parts of it. It's an euphemism. And it's dangerous because you constantly get trapped by these euphemisms. Ever. Single. F'ing. Time.

Re: Keep Android Open

#344

Post by firtoz »

edent wrote: post #330
ipdashc wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> banking/insurance/whatever apps I know banking apps are the typical example, but I've always wondered why. I use my bank's app maybe once or twice a year when I need to Zelle someone, which I only need to do when they don't have Venmo. (Unless we consider Venmo a banking app.) I only have one bank's app installed, the rest of my banks I only interact with over their website, on desktop. As for insurance, I've never…

My bank sends me an alert when my card is used to make a transaction - handy for spotting fraud. I get an alert when a payment comes it - handy for knowing if a client has paid. I can quickly check my balance - handy for knowing if I can afford another round of drinks. I can repay a friend in two taps - handy if they've paid for dinner. Is anything essential? No. Is it something people use multiple times per day? Yes…

Could all of these be handled through openbanking?

Re: Keep Android Open

#345

Post by rzerowan »

aembleton wrote: post #286
rzerowan wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe a shift to Huaweis HarmonyOS with its android compatibility layer or SailfishOS if they play their cards right. As far as HarmonyOS i dont see many uptakes outside strict US free requirements as the other OEMs are lazy and also dont want to be locked into a competitor. SailfishOS looks like its your time to faceplant once more , by not having a proper stratergy on monetizing on the many missteps from the curren…

As of version 5, HarmonyOS doesn't have the Android compatibility layer. There are emulators that allow APKs to run, but they're a bit clunky.

Ah if they can get the emulators to the level that Rosetta worked on OSX would be acceptable for hardto port apps.

Re: Keep Android Open

#346

Post by beeflet »

fsflover wrote: post #336
beeflet wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The limitation of linux phones is hardware. I have been watching the progress of postmarketOS on the fairphone 4, and looks promising.

https://puri.sm/posts/the-danger-of-focusing-on-specs/ Sent from my Librem 5.

I don't care about specs, I care about functionality and price. The camera on the pinephone doesn't practically work because it is too slow and the quality sucks. You basicially cannot record videos whatsoever. I can't use the device for GPS navigation. I can run whatsapp within waydroid, but it isn't practical due to the battery life and startup limitations that imposes. The GPU on the pinephone sucks, is underpowered, doesn't support OpenGL ES 3 or vulkan, and the user interface is always slow as hell to navigate.

So practically I cannot use it as a daily driver.

Librem 5 does have enough GPU horsepower, a functioning camera, and good pmOS support. But $800 is a lot to ask to test out switching to linux with no guarantee that my workflow will work or I will have enough battery life. It looks like the librem 5 can't record videos or do GPS navigation yet.

I am looking at the librem 5 specs again. The EG25-G is probably a better starting point for the modem now that it has been better documented and reverse engineered as a result of the pinephone project. It is interesting that the L5 has a generic smartcard reader though.

Re: Keep Android Open

#347

Post by nradov »

BenjiWiebe wrote: post #324
ipdashc wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> banking/insurance/whatever apps I know banking apps are the typical example, but I've always wondered why. I use my bank's app maybe once or twice a year when I need to Zelle someone, which I only need to do when they don't have Venmo. (Unless we consider Venmo a banking app.) I only have one bank's app installed, the rest of my banks I only interact with over their website, on desktop. As for insurance, I've never…

I can't deposit checks over the website, and I use a bank with no physical locations near me.

That's true, but the notion that we're still using paper checks in 2026 is so crazy. And yet they remain the cheapest way to handle many transactions in the US financial system. Like a lot of small healthcare providers still prefer to receive paper checks from insurance companies because the electronic payment processors take a 3% fee.

Re: Keep Android Open

#348

Post by pmontra »

LikesPwsh wrote: post #332
pmontra wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's the endgame, an Android device in a drawer at home. But what do I have to carry on my pocket to use the minimum amount of apps? Firefox, WhatsApp with video and audio calls, Telegram no video no audio, a mail client, a YouTube client (possibly not from YouTube), a maps and navigation app (for cars), phone calls, SMS.

YouTube on Firefox is a much better experience than the official YouTube app, so you can drop one from the list.

I'm using NewPipe and PipePipe. Both are better than the browser app.

Re: Keep Android Open

#349

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

ipdashc wrote: post #317
cwillu wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't though, because there's a ecosystem of banking/insurance/whatever apps that have bought into the android/iphone lockdown mindsete that people will simply be locked out of. Open alternatives can grow when there is a viable means of slow growth, and cutting off the oxygen to such things is the implicit intent.

> banking/insurance/whatever apps I know banking apps are the typical example, but I've always wondered why. I use my bank's app maybe once or twice a year when I need to Zelle someone, which I only need to do when they don't have Venmo. (Unless we consider Venmo a banking app.) I only have one bank's app installed, the rest of my banks I only interact with over their website, on desktop. As for insurance, I've never…

"I'm am just an outlier here?"

No. The "banking app doesn't work" argument against non-corporate mobile OS, raised incessantly is HN comments, is bogus

I want a "phone", i.e., small form factor computer, that can run something like NetBSD, or Linux. But I have no intention of using it for commercial transactions. Mobile banking is not why I want to run a non-corporate OS

I want to use it for recreation, research and experimentation

NB. I have more than one "phone". The choice is not corporate mobile OS versus non-corporate mobile OS, i.e., "either-or". I can use both, each for specific purposes

Re: Keep Android Open

#350

Post by observationist »

fsflover wrote: post #341
observationist wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's got a sim card, it's still phoning home and providing location data. You can't escape the panopticon. A faraday bag gets you mostly there, though, but the point isn't that you can maneuver against it, it's that the device and its operation is fundamentally compromised by design. There's a whole lot of shady crap underlying the infrastructure and the hardware that consumers cannot touch, pinephone / librephone…

> If it's got a sim card, it's still phoning home and providing location data Only when the kill switch is on. I control it. Also, it's possible to get AweSIM service hiding your data from the mobile operators.

For sure - and you can use WiFi only, set yourself up with a HaLow rig and give yourself a ~10mbps connection anywhere up to 10 miles from your home, suitable for voip and low rate streaming, throw in VPN, and remain completely off-net as far as cellular networks go. I'm actually planning on using a wireless touchscreen and mobile halow/raspberry pi network/storage stack to completely replace my phone, but the bigger issue is automated tracking of everything - if you're the only blank spot in a sea of known individuals, it's just a matter of seconds to id you, since everything everywhere about everyone is tracked online.

We should be enforcing informed consent regulation of network infrastructure, treating privacy and anonymity as synonymous with liberty and freedom. Allowing the system to operate as it does is a choice; those with lots of money get to make it grow by exploiting a constant invasion of privacy with no concurrent return to the society being exploited.

Phones aren't built to be privacy respecting, and kill switches are a mitigation of a symptom, they don't do anything to address the disease.

Post reply on HN