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America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

governance.fyi

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Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People play dumb status games. Here is the crazy thing, I went carnivore after I retired because one thread that worried me about shitty insurance is the risk. Now, I'm pretty sure if I only eat meat and work-out, then I might not even need insurance. Like, my labs are phenomenal. By taking away the fear and the addiction, I've got a level of calm and control of my life that makes me realize the "modern world" is dee…

So you think healthy living will prevent you from needing medical care until you are 65 ?

For the chronic stuff, yes.

For acute accidents, who knows!

With carnivore: I'm off almost all meds, my mobility and flexibility are amazing these days (I am sitting on the floor right now with crossed legs).

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who save a lot are typically people comforted by sitting on a big nest egg. Saving a lot for retirement and then dying the day before retirement isn’t necessarily going to be a source of regret, because they had 30 years of warm fuzzy feelings about eventually hatching their nest egg. They could have spent it all instead, and had a life full of anxiety. You’re looking for people who didn’t want to save but beg…

I'm not sure. There is a warm fuzzy from knowing you are okay if things go bad of course, but how many of those who saved for the feeling would have saved less - they still would want a good amount saved for things going wrong of course but not that much.

I’m a saver. I’ve had coworkers tell me I “live like a poor person.” I disagree, but can see how it might look that way sometimes.

The thing is, I have everything I want. On serval occasions I’ve gotten a bonus or something and decided I should recklessly spend a certain percentage of it. It’s hard, because there is nothing I want. I spend months trying to come up with ideas and buy some stuff, but rarely all of it. This last year, I just stayed at a really expensive hotel to finish out the reckless spending budget… and think I would have been happier at a less nice place. I own my home, my car is paid off, I go on a nice trip or two each year. I’m not sure what else I’d want.

I like the idea that I could buy something more than the reality of having it. In many cases, I find the idea of having more things stressful. Having multiple homes or cars just sounds like work. A boat sounds like a nightmare; the best boat is a friend’s boat.

If I won the lottery, my big splurge would probably be selling my house and going back to renting. I liked not having to care about anything as a renter.

My grandma lived to 104, and had she lived another couple months, there would have been a lot of uncomfortable talks about where the money would come from to keep supporting her. She died with about $1k left to her name. You could say she did it perfectly, but this caused a lot of stress for the people taking care of her. She also got lucky with various benefits, which a lot of work went into getting. She lived a very frugal life, so this was not overspending on her part… she just lived a long time. I don’t want anyone who might be taking care of me to need to worry like that, and I don’t want to need to worry either. I don’t know how much I’ll need, but would rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it… and I don’t feel like I’m making any sacrifices for that. What would make me miserable is having to go back to work in my 70s, because I spent too much money on nonsense I didn’t even want when I was younger due to social pressure.

There is a lot of freedom is not being saddled with payments or expensive stuff. If I lost my job, I could probably make ends meet working just about anywhere. This gives me so peace of mind, and if I didn’t want to work for a few years, I could do that too.

I do like to buy nice stuff when I do buy things. I often wish I didn’t. I feel like there is also freedom is not having a bunch of nice stuff. When it’s too nice, the stuff ends up feeling like it needs to be treated with kid gloves and protected. I’d like to feel less attached to some of my things.

In college there were 2 kids who shared a dorm room and they had basically nothing. They never locked their door, because there was nothing to take. Move in/out probably took 10 minutes. I kind of envied the amount of freedom that gave them. I think about it often, even decades later. I knew other people who were robbed and they were always stressed out.

If people have ideas of things to spend money on to “save less”, I’m all ears. I have been out of ideas for years.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money can be passed down to your children and grandchildren though.

If you follow the fairly common path of "various expensive, intermittent medical problems for a couple decades, a handful of years of very-bad medical problems, nursing home, then hospice care" in the US, and you don't have a shitload of money , you don't really have a savings of your own, you're just temporarily taking care of the medical and end-of-life-care industries' money. There's not going to be much to pass d…

This isn’t an argument against saving. It sounds like an argument for saving more. Unless the message is to live it up while you’re young, then don’t bother treating anything when you get old… just let go.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while commuting each day to a developed country Must be a fully automated border or something? That kind of commute would be unthinkable between e.g. Canada and the USA for most folks

Where are you located? Lots of such crossings used to happen, anyway, many years ago via Nexus or similar. Get the pass, just drive right on through over the bridge at Windsor/Detroit. Also similar things in Vancouver, I believe.

I reentered the US from Windsor a few months ago and the Nexus line was backed up but could just sail through the regular line once they inched enough past the tunnel.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#345
post #22

You know who they didn't interview: those who regret saving so much. Many of those people are dead and so the regret is something we can only apply on assumption that they would. I've known a few people who unexpectedly died before they hit retirement age. I've know a few people who retired and died suddenly. The vast majority of people in a "first world" country have an expected lifespan of about 80 - but there is a…

> you can't take it with you (at least in most religions) so spend it. I don't understand this PoV at all. I can't take it with me, sure, but I'm happy anyway if I leave it behind to my kids. This PoV that you need to spend, spend, spend to get the most value for your money is very primitive - my kids will do better if I die before touching my nest egg, and if I don't at least I'll have a longer runway to live withou…

> I can't take it with me, sure, but I'm happy anyway if I leave it behind to my kids.

You would be happiest if you could take it with you. Since you can't, you'll leave it to your kids, because it would even worse leaving it to somebody else.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can't take it with you (at least in most religions) so spend it. I don't understand this PoV at all. I can't take it with me, sure, but I'm happy anyway if I leave it behind to my kids. This PoV that you need to spend, spend, spend to get the most value for your money is very primitive - my kids will do better if I die before touching my nest egg, and if I don't at least I'll have a longer runway to live withou…

The people who are against saving are also the people who want you to spend all your money on their product. It’s just the capitalist wanting more meat for the grinder.

Money is just an abstract, and the less it circulates, the less stuff gets done. For no purpose but insecurity.

The ideal would be that everybody operates without savings and without debt. Either of those tools only being used exceptionally, when the benefits are enormous.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#347
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is being entirely disingenuous and is completely different to what goes on in Dubai. I have lived there and can rattle off plenty of criticisms about the country but complaining about migrant workers who clamour to work in SG is not one of them. The vast majority of Singapore migrant workforce are Malaysian citizens who live over the border in JB, you can rent a 2 bed apartment there for $300 a month and eat out…

I said nothing of the kind you imply. I know skilled workers who were based in Dubai but who expected to leave immediately their work (court transcription) ended and the same with expat Australians and Britons working in Singapore. The point is not if they get a rough deal or not compared to their home income. The point is that the welfare state costs on the tax base won't be spent to their material benefit, so they…

[deleted]

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you located? Lots of such crossings used to happen, anyway, many years ago via Nexus or similar. Get the pass, just drive right on through over the bridge at Windsor/Detroit. Also similar things in Vancouver, I believe.

I reentered the US from Windsor a few months ago and the Nexus line was backed up but could just sail through the regular line once they inched enough past the tunnel.

Sure, all bets are off as of January 2025. In the past, it wasn't a big deal.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#349
post #296

Singapore's economic policies are complicated and often misdirecting. I'll break down the misconceptions. The primary purpose of CPF is not a pension scheme. It is structured as a massive forced bond purchase scheme by citizens. Financially what happens is the 37% of citizen income buys a long term bond (till retirement age, on average decades) at rock bottom interest rates (it's pegged to the overnight rate or a min…

> The main goal of the government is to maximize the absolute number of people working. Why? What? You know, they have to win elections? They recently tightened migrant worker visas quite a lot.

The Singaporean government is responsive to public opinion to some degree, but it is so they can maintain their current status of not having to worry about winning elections.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#350
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked with a guy from sg. He gave me tips for when I went to visit. He hooked me up with a family member that showed me the backend a bit. The country effectively runs on a slave class. You must drive a new vehicle under 5 years old, and the license just to buy a car was $90,000 or so. This means an entire class of people that will be taking the bus to do your laundry and clean your house for the rest of their liv…

Slave class? What? > You must drive a new vehicle under 5 years old, [..] No? And no one is forced to drive anything. I don't own a car.

> no one is forced to drive anything. I don't own a car.

Cut him some slack, it is hard for an American to imagine anybody living without a car.

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