I'm too late but I'm surprised HN crowd treats tiktok as some weaponized addiction machine. Youtube used to have a working recommendation system and it was usable too. Is it really bad to give me woodworking and learning chinese videos if that's what I'm interested in at the moment? If somebody is not interested in anything specific and just want to zone out, is it really different if he scrolls through tiktok or watches the same thing put into longer videos on TV or some other site? I see zero rational argument being made here. Should we ban bikes if they are the most efficient transportation mode in given area because people get addicted to them?
TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe
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Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe
#342Again, the most problematic in this is how vague and handwavy the regulation is.
> The Commission's investigation preliminarily indicates that TikTok did not adequately assess how these addictive features could harm the physical and mental wellbeing of its users, including minors and vulnerable adults.
> For example, by constantly ‘rewarding' users with new content, certain design features of TikTok fuel the urge to keep scrolling and shift the brain of users into ‘autopilot mode'. Scientific research shows that this may lead to compulsive behaviour and reduce users' self-control.
> Additionally, in its assessment, TikTok disregarded important indicators of compulsive use of the app, such as the time that minors spend on TikTok at night, the frequency with which users open the app, and other potential indicators.
This is comically unscientific language. It's entirely subjective what is adequate when framed like that. This is another law aimed at suing megacorps to extract fines, although i m not sure how they hope to get those fines from China.
Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe
#343Idk how to feel about this specifically but I kind of hope they come for Duolingo next. They are up to some similar mind hacking shit to keep people from leaving. There's the downright abusive streak management tactics that have become a major part of their brand and PR, and the lesson plans seem designed to plateau to prevent you from actually getting proficient enough in a language to ever unsub. They reset your cl…
duolingo is pretty bad overall, sadly most better alternatives [zB: anki flashcards] are a bit less shiny and more difficult to set-up for less tech-oriented people
There may be a very fine line between reward-hacking for the user's benefit vs. building a facsimile of language learning on top of a nuclear-powered Gacha loop. I've looked at other learning apps (including I think Anki but I haven't tried it) trying to help people out of the Duolingo pit and they do all seem much more clinical in comparison. Not automatically a bad thing for an educational tool but it's also not hard to see why they don't get the same traction.
Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe
#344In the US it is now legal because it was completely taken over by the hydra.
Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe
#345Earlier quoted context omitted.
TikTok's differention is the userbase of all teenagers in the world.
But go just one layer deeper to 'why is every teenager using Tiktok' and the primary answer once again becomes 'Tiktok's recommendation engine'
No the primary answer is "teenagers do what other teenagers do". Remember we are advanced apes no more no less.
There is this curious word "influencer" which everyone uses but few ever think about what it really means.
Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe
#346Give a kid a phone with TikTok on it and observe them for a while. It's genuinely upsetting. They'll spend hours with their heads down just silently looking at the thing. All desire to do anything else just vanishes. Then they freak out when you try to take it away from them. The only obvious difference between them and someone on fent is the verticality of their posture.
Using this logic the government should regulate Minecraft too.
Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe
#347Earlier quoted context omitted.
duolingo is pretty bad overall, sadly most better alternatives [zB: anki flashcards] are a bit less shiny and more difficult to set-up for less tech-oriented people
There may be a very fine line between reward-hacking for the user's benefit vs. building a facsimile of language learning on top of a nuclear-powered Gacha loop. I've looked at other learning apps (including I think Anki but I haven't tried it) trying to help people out of the Duolingo pit and they do all seem much more clinical in comparison. Not automatically a bad thing for an educational tool but it's also not ha…
yeah, the issue is that there really can't be one "do-it-all" tool. even duolingo doesn't really teach grammar iirc [which really means one can't become fluent tbh]. one kinda has to set up the parts by oneselves, but that's a bit difficult to get used to
Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe
#348Earlier quoted context omitted.
I noticed Youtube shorts also seems to update the feed based on how long the last video you watched. If you're scrolling quickly then stop to watch a dog video long enough the next one is likely to be another dog video.
Facebook does the same. The longer I dwell on an image post, the more likely the next batch of posts would be similar
The right way to look at these networks is that people are being trained by the algorithm, not the other way around. The ultimate goal is to elicit behaviors in humans, normally to spend more time and spend more money in the platform, but also for other goals that may be designed by the owners of the network.
Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe
#349I do think it's addictive, but also the very idea of media in general is to keep you around. Television channels try to display content their viewers enjoy, but they can only target broadly. The web allows sites to have way more personal recommendations, but banning it is essentially banning sites because people enjoy it too much. I think short form content especially is basically brain rot, but I also don't know how…
>I do think it's addictive, but also the very idea of media in general is to keep you around.
I do think it's addictive, but also the very idea of casinos/bars/opium dens in general is to keep you around.
Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe
#350Earlier quoted context omitted.
And that kind of absolutism isn't helpful either! "Government" isn't an external actor; most governments exist on the spectrum between "a big chunk of the public is OK with or supports what they're doing" and "directly influenced by public opinion" (democratic states). And yeah, they abuse power a lot! So do corporations, tribes, religions, etc.--governments are just the "big group with violence capability and power"…
>Well, liquor quite famously is considered as something to be protected in the U.S.; we had widespread civil unrest about removing legal restrictions on it! And yet there's no Constitutional right to liquor, nor is access to liquor generally recognized as a fundamental human right. The civil unrest was due to the obvious result of banning liquor being the creation of mafia-run black markets. Same as the "war on drugs…
Advertising is speech and it's often heavily regulated.