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France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

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Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#341

Post by speedgoose »

klaff wrote: post #289
maxloh wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I’ve learned over the years is that people don't necessarily vote for the "best" candidate. Instead, they vote for the candidate who is "least bad" and do the minimum amount of damage to their interests. It is always a matter of compromise. As a counter-example, you cannot expect an LGBT person to vote for a right-wing conservative who advocates against their own rights, even if that candidate makes the "ri…

>As a counter-example, you cannot expect an LGBT person to vote for a right-wing conservative who advocates against their own rights, even if that candidate makes the "right call" on every other issue. I can't think of a candidate that fits this description.

Yeah, isn’t the point of extreme right to make the wrong calls for the majority of the population?

Historically, the right side was pro-monarchy. Then, you go extreme.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#342

Post by thrance »

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #247
input_sh wrote: post #167

Worth pointing out: France is not adopting existing open source software, they're building their own software and releasing it under the MIT licence. Most of it (or all of it?) is Django backend + React frontend (using a custom-built UI kit). Home page for the entire suite (in French) with some screenshots: https://lasuite.numerique.gouv.fr/ Code bases are on GitHub and they use English there: https://github.com/suit…

> Code bases are on GitHub Not a very solid way to move away from American big tech :/

I remember seeing some projects by the French government on their self-hosted Gitlab. Maybe these are just public mirrors of their private repos?

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#343

Post by zelphirkalt »

procflora wrote: post #162
jl6 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teams, Sharepoint, Exchange, and OneDrive seem to be connected by a maze of dark twisty integration passages which no single human has mapped fully.

Somewhere, in the deepest bowels, Skype still lives. I'm sure of it.

It actually does or at least did, until at least a few years ago. When you opened the audio mixer (alsamixer or pulse audio control?) on XFCE, you could still see MS Teams labeled as Skype there. Not sure how it would be now, because I only ever use MS Teams isolated in a separate Ungoogled Chromium browser now, and have given up on the client for GNU/Linux.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#344

Post by epistasis »

philipallstar wrote: post #323
epistasis wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking through the resources you've linked is one of the most hopeful and awesome software experiences I have had in a while. There's a chance to unlock tremendous value for society here. Imagine if you could fix all the awful bugs making video conferencing software shitty for you ! It's perhaps the most bug-plagued software out there in the world, with the highest number of complaints I have ever seen. We've had a…

Zoom isn't buggy I wouldn't say. It's really good.

That's been my personal experience, but colleagues on Linux are continually fighting it.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#345

Post by zelphirkalt »

muwtyhg wrote: post #61
Banditoz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every Teams team is backed by SharePoint, unfortunately.

And every private channel as well. And if you rename the Team, the SharePoint will become out-of-sync and all URLs will still use the old Team name.

Oh, this is useful info... Another tool in the box of making other people realize how much it sucks.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#346

Post by surgical_fire »

joe_mamba wrote: post #270
BrandoElFollito wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am French. When I look at the EU I see great potentials but the effect is a huge bureaucratic mess that is advantageous for everyone involved. About 25% of EU parliament parties are against EU. Theyt are paid by the EU to tell how much they hate this institution. There are no two countries in the EU who are aligned. Some of them are not completely out of synch (mostly the Nordics), some are in schizophrenia mode (P…

> Theyt are paid by the EU to tell how much they hate this institution. Correction: They're paid by the EU taxpayers. And as politicians, there's a chance their vociferation of hate towards the EU is just parroting the opinion their voters have towards the EU, which means they're doing their job as politicians, whether you like their opinions or not. >some are in schizophrenia mode (Poland, Hungary, Slovakia mostly)…

> Worth remembering that Hungary, Slovakia, et-al have loved the EU for many, many years after joining. It's not like they suddenly decided to hate the EU for absolutely no reason. So then let's examine and talk about those reasons, instead of calling them schizophrenic which doesn't solve anything and just breeds more animosity and extremism.

Please do so.

All 3 countries benefit massively from being in the EU, particularly Poland, who is on track to become one of the largest EU economies.

In fact, every country in the bloc benefits immensely from being in the bloc. The UK is a good reminder that leaving only brings stagnation.

European countries are relatively small in the world stage. Think that Germany has the popularity of Chinese provinces. In trade negotiations the EU gets to play much tougher than any individual country would ever dream of, and free access to the whole bloc is a massive benefit.

Is it perfect? Obviously not. But more often than not, the downsides and inefficiencies come from the fact that individual countries still hold too much power, and have too many redundant bureaucracies with the bloc itself.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#348

Post by yesimahuman »

tyre wrote: post #23

As an American, this is awesome to see. We should pay penalties for our abandonment of good faith global engagement. And economic damage really is the key to the heart of these United States of Three Corporations in a Trench Coat. We’ve seen companies and CEOs paying millions in bribes to be close to the president. Now this aligns their financial interests with shifting our foreign policy. Not how it ought to work, b…

Yep, and watching many of my peers in tech get red pilled and vote for this administration, or even be active participants in it, has been very hard to stomach. Financial penalties might be the only thing that gets them to realize the error of their ways

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#349

Post by victorbojica »

philipallstar wrote: post #324
shevy-java wrote: post #192

Makes sense. This software dependency that Europe has on the USA is very, very bad - no just with regards to Zoom, but literally anything. The US corporations are forced by law to always prioritize whoever represents the current US government, and the current US government will remain hostile as long as it is in charge; but even afterwards it is quite logical to assume that any follow-up government will prioritize US…

France does everything right except produce much software. I'm sure it can copycat things pioneered by the US, and 20 years later, but that's not exactly difficult.

Doesn't really matter if copycat or not in this case. I'd argue it's even better to be a copycat in order to move faster.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#350

Post by marcosdumay »

GaryBluto wrote: post #177
tyre wrote: post #23

As an American, this is awesome to see. We should pay penalties for our abandonment of good faith global engagement. And economic damage really is the key to the heart of these United States of Three Corporations in a Trench Coat. We’ve seen companies and CEOs paying millions in bribes to be close to the president. Now this aligns their financial interests with shifting our foreign policy. Not how it ought to work, b…

It's so strange reading all these comments from Americans begging to be punished for collective misdeeds. It reads as unsettlingly masochistic.

They are the ones that get to face almost all of the consequences from their government. And they know that if the people that voted on their current government don't get severally punished, things will only escalate.
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