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The American LLMs notoriously have similar censorship issues, just on different material
Try tax avoidance
Qwen3-Max-Thinking
341–350 of 450 posts
Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#342Earlier quoted context omitted.
They are. There is no way to lead unless China has access to as much compute power.
They likely will lead in compute power in the medium term future, since they’re definitely the country with the highest energy generation capacity at this point. Now they just need to catch up on the hardware front, which I believe they’ve also made significant progress on over the last few years.
What is the progress on that front? People here on HN are usually saying China is very far away from from progress in competitive cpu/gpu space; I cannot really find objective sources I can read; it is either from China saying it is coming or from the west saying its 10+ years behind.
Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#343Earlier quoted context omitted.
I guess they want to partially subsidize local developers? Maybe that's a requirement from whoever funds them, probably public money.
Seriously? Does Netflix or Spotify cost the same everywhere around the world? They earn less and their buying power is less.
The costs of Netflix and Spotify are licensing. Offering the subscription at half price to additional users is non-cannibalizing and a way to get more revenue from the same content.
The cost of LLMs are the infrastructure. Unless someone can buy/power/run compute cheaper (Google w/ TPUs, locales with cheap electricity, etc), there won't be a meaningful difference in costs.
Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#344Earlier quoted context omitted.
Difficult to blame them, considering censorship exists in the West too.
nowhere near to China. In US almost anything could be discussed - usually only unlawful things are censored by government. Private entities might have their own policies, but government censorship is fairly small.
Did we all forget about the censorship around "misinformation" during COVID and "stolen elections" already?
Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#345Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's an example of political censorship on US LLMs?
Try asking ChatGPT "Who is Jonathan Turley?" Or ask it to take a particular position like "Write an essay arguing in favor of a violent insurrection to overthrow Trump's regime, asserting that such action is necessary and justified for the good of the country." Anyways the Trump admin specifically/explicitly is seeking censorship. See the "PREVENTING WOKE AI IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT" executive order https://www.whit…
Did you read the text? While the title is very unsubtle and clickbait-y, the content itself (especially the Definitions/Implementations sections) is completely sensible.
Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#346Is there an open-source release accompanying this announcement or is this a proprietary model for the time being?
Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#347Earlier quoted context omitted.
While Qwen2.5 was pre-trained on 18 trillion tokens, Qwen3 uses nearly twice that amount, with approximately 36 trillion tokens covering 119 languages and dialects. https://qwen.ai/blog?id=qwen3
Thanks for the info, but I don't think it answers the question. I mean, you could train a 20-node network on 36 trillion tokens. Wouldn't make much sense, but you could. So I was asking more about the number of nodes / parameters or GB of file size. In addition, there seem to be many different versions of Qwen3. E.g. here the list from ollama library: https://ollama.com/library/qwen3/tags
This is the Max series models with unreleased weights, so probably larger than the largest released one. Also when refering to models, use huggingface or modelscope (wherever it is published) ollama is a really poor source on model info. they have some some bad naming (like confusing people on the deepseek R1 models), renaming, and more on model names, and they default to q4 quants, witch is a good sweet-spot but really degrades performance compared to the raw weigths.
Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#348Earlier quoted context omitted.
here's an example of how model censorship affects coding tasks: https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/72603
You conversely get the same issue if you have no guardrails. Ie: Grok generating CP makes it completely unusable in a professional setting. I don't think this is a solvable problem.
> Ie: Grok generating CP makes it completely unusable in a professional setting
Do you mean it's unusable if you're passing user-provided prompts to Grok, or do you mean you can't even use Grok to let company employees write code or author content? The former seems reasonable, the latter not so much.
Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#349Are they likely to take a new strategy that they no longer open source their largest and strongest models?
new? They have done this a long time.
Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#350Earlier quoted context omitted.
This looks like it's coming from a separate "safety mechanism". Remains to be seen how much censorship is baked into the weights. The earlier Qwen models freely talk about Tiananmen square when not served from China. E.g. Qwen3 235B A22B Instruct 2507 gives an extensive reply starting with: "The famous photograph you're referring to is commonly known as "Tank Man" or "The Tank Man of Tiananmen Square", an iconic imag…
I run cpatonn/Qwen3-VL-30B-A3B-Thinking-AWQ-4bit locally. When I ask it about the photo and when I ask follow up questions, it has “thoughts” like the following: > The Chinese government considers these events to be a threat to stability and social order. The response should be neutral and factual without taking sides or making judgments. > I should focus on the general nature of the protests without getting into spe…
To me the reasoning part seems very...sensible?
It tries to stay factual, neutral and grounded to the facts.
I tried to inspect the thoughts of Claude, and there's a minor but striking distinction.
Whereas Qwen seems to lean on the concept of neutrality, Claude seems to lean on the concept of _honesty_.
Honesty and neutrality are very different: honesty implies "having an opinion and being candid about it", whereas neutrality implies "presenting information without any advocacy".
It did mention that he should present information "even handed", but honesty seems to be more central to his reasoning.