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Tell HN: Bending Spoons laid off almost everybody at Vimeo yesterday

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Re: Tell HN: Bending Spoons laid off almost everybody at Vimeo yesterday

#341

Post by johnnyanmac »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #290
johnnyanmac wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society has more money and way more votes than PE. I'm going to quote A Bugs Life (1998) of all things here: > Hopper: You let one ant stand up to us, then they all might stand up! Those puny little ants outnumber us a hundred to one and if they ever figure that out there goes our way of life! It's not about food, it's about keeping those ants in line. In our case, it's more like a million to one

I suspect that the free cash flow of those who seek fewer regulations of this sort on thing exceeds the free cash flow of those who seek more. People that are being squeezed by PE have less money to wield as political influence partially because they are being squeezed by PE. The ones doing the squeezing are ok with that. The people who are uninvolved, who fit into neither box, don't care enough or don't have enough…

>The people who are uninvolved, who fit into neither box, don't care enough

That lack of care is going to cost us all in ways we'll be forced to care about one day. Not necessarily for Vimeo, but definitely much more important things that people are ignorant or actively turning their heads against.

> They also don't have fancy accountants or corporate accounts to expense it to.

We call them our represenatives. We expense it to them with our votes (and literal expenses with tax dollars we are forced to part with). But votes require care and we're back in the loop.

Re: Tell HN: Bending Spoons laid off almost everybody at Vimeo yesterday

#342

Post by [deleted] »

sammularczyk wrote: post #327
stenuto wrote: post #103

As a longtime user of Vimeo (since 2009), I was afraid this was going to happen. I built our own HLS video streaming in-house a couple of years ago and never looked back. Way faster, lightweight player, uses modern apis and codecs. Now I'm working on productizing that at https://framerate.com/ (beta launches next week!)

There's another Vimeo alternative at https://framerate.tv - not sure which came first!

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: Bending Spoons laid off almost everybody at Vimeo yesterday

#343

Post by johnnyanmac »

everfrustrated wrote: post #298
johnnyanmac wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I can't take any anti-immigration sentiments seriously in this country. An american founded company runs a business for 20 years, sells it off overseas, and the new owners kick all Americans out of the equation. Response from America: "well that's just business, I guess". It was never about preserving American labor.

If the company was profitable they wouldn't have needed to sell. It was always living on borrowed time. If a US owner bought it they'd have done exactly the same thing (layoffs) albeit possibly with new jobs in a different state than country.

>If the company was profitable they wouldn't have needed to sell.

And it's always the workers who pays the price, not the businessman. Does that see fair?

>If a US owner bought it they'd have done exactly the same thing (layoffs) albeit possibly with new jobs in a different state than country.

That'd be unfortunate, but it still means jobs are created in the US. It also gives he opportunity (slim) to have people move in the country. Moving the jobs overseas, not quite as mobile.

But yes, the big issue here is the lack of decorum in how we recklessly cut jobs here. This isn't how most 1st world coutnries work.

Re: Tell HN: Bending Spoons laid off almost everybody at Vimeo yesterday

#344

Post by switchstance »

sammularczyk wrote: post #327
stenuto wrote: post #103

As a longtime user of Vimeo (since 2009), I was afraid this was going to happen. I built our own HLS video streaming in-house a couple of years ago and never looked back. Way faster, lightweight player, uses modern apis and codecs. Now I'm working on productizing that at https://framerate.com/ (beta launches next week!)

There's another Vimeo alternative at https://framerate.tv - not sure which came first!

We did. https://framerate.tv

Re: Tell HN: Bending Spoons laid off almost everybody at Vimeo yesterday

#345

Post by epolanski »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #291
epolanski wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what actual change do you want when the very founders of these companies like Vimeo, multi-multi-millionaires decide to sell their life's work, customers and workers very well knowing what the fate's gonna be, just to be even more wealthier?

To summarize what I put in another response: I personally care less about holding the multi millionaire into account (though I wouldn't mind it at all) and more about making sure employees over such deals aren't lied to and then have lives upended at the drop of a hat. Workers and customers do not in fact "know what the fate's gonna be" and that's the problem to address. I won't repeat the same usual solutions again,…

> Workers and customers do not in fact "know what the fate's gonna be" and that's the problem to address.

1. Bending Spoons model is known, everybody knows as soon it's announced

2. The company belongs to the shareholders and founders. It's them making the decision.

Re: Tell HN: Bending Spoons laid off almost everybody at Vimeo yesterday

#346

Post by mindslight »

fsckboy wrote: post #338
Quarrelsome wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

some people look at business as making money for the sake of making money. However other people look at making money as a means to better society. This goes back over a century to the Quaker run businesses, like Lloyds, Rowntree, Cadburys, etc. You can imagine if your ultimate aim was to improve society, then acquiring a firm but having to sack a bunch of employees as somewhat of a failure.

> some people look at business as making money for the sake of making money. However other people look at making money as a means to better society. if the two sides you describe agree on those definitions as mutually exclusive but in union describing the universal set of people, then they are both wrong. as long as people engaged in a market make their own choices, then money is a direct measure of happiness on the…

> as long as people engaged in a market make their own choices, then money is a direct measure of happiness on the margin

That is a big if which is straightforwardly false. This idea of market participants' choices being entirely free rests on the efficient market fallacy [0]. Whereas the reality is that even the structure of a market itself creates friction. One of the main points of business schools is learning how to recognize and take advantage of this structural friction, which business people then conveniently forget when it's time to assuage their own egos regarding their counterparties.

[0] which is basically in the realm of asserting P == NP. The supreme irony is that if the efficient market fallacy were true, then central planning would also work as well!

Re: Tell HN: Bending Spoons laid off almost everybody at Vimeo yesterday

#347

Post by hackable_sand »

ecshafer wrote: post #119
bovermyer wrote: post #98

Can someone give me some examples of private equity firms that aren't driven purely by avarice? I have a bet going with a colleague.

Your question doesn't really make sense. What business isn't driven by the goal of making money ultimately?

What businesses are profit-driven? I would love to know so I can avoid them.

Re: Tell HN: Bending Spoons laid off almost everybody at Vimeo yesterday

#348

Post by Nextgrid »

refulgentis wrote: post #334
Nextgrid wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that was poor framing on my part from the beginning; I used the term deadweight meaning overhead that can be cut, not implying culpability one way or another. Which positions are culpable or victims is besides the point here (I have other comments on ZIRP related threads if you are interested, where I do make direct accusations). > ordinary people who were lied to by the actual decision-makers Were they truly…

I don't have some kind of beef with you. I react personally too in these long discussions, don't begrudge you the impression. Just saw what I thought was youth, but it was a fellow older fellow*, so chased the interlocution more than I usually would because I was curious and wanted to make sure there wasn't insight I had missed and you were speaking loosely (as is normal, we are not robots) re: motivation, I took a l…

No worries, all good! It's difficult to convey emotions and tone online.

> it was a fellow older fellow

~11 years professional experience only - still got plenty to learn, but unfortunately seen enough shit to be cynical. Started out starry-eyed in the middle of the ZIRP era ~2015 and made some salary off it but no exit money, though something felt off and I never understood the over-engineering at the time.

Then as I gained experience, switched to consulting to boost my earnings and looking back at it my (admittedly very jaded) opinion is that a lot of that "engineering" was performative bullshit enabled by cheap money, which continues to be the case in some verticals (blockchain; now AI).

Senior engineers of the time would've likely known it was bullshit and were just happy to play with new tech while subsidized by VCs, but unfortunately this "quiet part" was never said out loud to those who started their careers during this period and for whom their only experience of technology was through this distorted lens of cheap money and no financial/business pressures.

The result is a lot of very senior people tech-wise but with little exposure to the business side of their craft, who the readjustment hit like a brick wall. The fact my statement about maintaining a (well-built) product requiring much less manpower than building it is apparently controversial suggests many people have yet to experience this brick wall.

But for those who looked into the financials, the selling out and subsequent layoffs should've come at no surprise - it was never sustainable to keep paying those tech salaries perpetually. The same thing happened to blockchain/web3/crypto, and the same will eventually happen to AI.

There is still and will always be money to be made in technology, but it will be made by applying technology to business problems and approaching every problem as "how much money does this make/save and how big of a cut I can negotiate". Permanent employment is just letting someone else do said negotiation on your behalf in exchange for a promise of stability - well, turns out when the times are tough they don't have to keep that promise: plan accordingly.

(btw, this ZIRP-era distortion was not limited to technical roles - there were plenty of "startup founders" and executive roles too who got there because of the cheap money rather than earning said position through demonstrated skill - unsurprisingly, a lot of those people have since quietly transitioned back to the rank & file once the money fueling their little startup escapade ran out)

Re: Tell HN: Bending Spoons laid off almost everybody at Vimeo yesterday

#349

Post by keane »

Animats wrote: post #261

Is there a solid source for this? Vimeo laid off most of their operation in Israel recently.[1] At least according to "www.calcalistech.com", which seems to be some minor news source in Israel. Their comment was that the office was damaged in a recent war. Rebuilding may not have been worth it. Their headquarters is in New York. [1] https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/sjtjgbabzx

https://businessinsider.com/vimeo-laying-off-staff-after-bil...

Re: Tell HN: Bending Spoons laid off almost everybody at Vimeo yesterday

#350

Post by fsckboy »

mindslight wrote: post #346
fsckboy wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some people look at business as making money for the sake of making money. However other people look at making money as a means to better society. if the two sides you describe agree on those definitions as mutually exclusive but in union describing the universal set of people, then they are both wrong. as long as people engaged in a market make their own choices, then money is a direct measure of happiness on the…

> as long as people engaged in a market make their own choices, then money is a direct measure of happiness on the margin That is a big if which is straightforwardly false. This idea of market participants' choices being entirely free rests on the efficient market fallacy [0]. Whereas the reality is that even the structure of a market itself creates friction. One of the main points of business schools is learning how…

>This idea of market participants' choices being entirely free rests on the efficient market fallacy

in an inefficient market, you can still choose to transact or not, and you will only do so if you feel you will benefit.

in an efficient market, the net benefit across society will be higher, but nothing in what I said requires an efficient market.

so you are simply wrong.

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