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‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

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Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#341

Post by foobarchu »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #189
pixelready wrote: post #12

I’ve never worked at Palantir, but once you get past the noisy leadership’s villain virtue signaling, every report I’ve read about the platform itself gives me strong “typical enterprise vendor” vibes. A lackluster software offering that is overhyped to institutional purchasers, then shoved down frontline employees’ throats because the vendor is good at navigating the sales and compliance labyrinth to secure deals. T…

[flagged]

> I'll also remind everyone that it's estimated that under Obama 3.1 million illegals were deported.

And with no gestapo needed! That's the difference.

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#342

Post by [deleted] »

afavour wrote: post #315
xiphias2 wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because there is extremism both on the left and right: the left thinks that the right wants a power grab to stop left from coming back, and the right thinks that if they don't keep their power now, the left will take it and keep it using immigrants. Both of them are right: unless there's a civil war or moderate president (which probably needs ranked choice voting) the most probable scenario is that one of the 2…

This is peak “both sides”. Just today Trump said he thinks there shouldn’t be any midterms. No Democrat is saying anything remotely like that.

[deleted]

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#343

Post by cg5280 »

stevenwoo wrote: post #291
speedgoose wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could focus on having positive projects for the society, and a good reputation. That works. I don’t think I ever seen a CV from an ex Pal*ntir employee though. Perhaps they are automatically filtered or working for good morals doesn’t attract them.

I think they might be a little desperate for new employees since I haven’t worked in about ten years and both Palantir and Anduril contacted me with cold calls in past year.

In a country with many huge companies selling oil, cigarettes, weapons, etc. there is no shortage of people willing to deal in morally questionable trades for money. I might even boldly suggest that Palantir is arguably far from the worst.

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#344

Post by [deleted] »

SilverElfin wrote: post #26

These raids are the indiscriminate door to door raids right? There are lots of disturbing reports from these. For example ICE agents showing up at a white family’s door to ask which houses have Asian people living in them. The raids are blatantly unconstitutional (fourth amendment) but also, regardless of laws, they are well beyond the pale in terms of morality. It’s crazy that tech companies are willfully participat…

[deleted]

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#345

Post by senordevnyc »

jeron wrote: post #86
pixelready wrote: post #12

I’ve never worked at Palantir, but once you get past the noisy leadership’s villain virtue signaling, every report I’ve read about the platform itself gives me strong “typical enterprise vendor” vibes. A lackluster software offering that is overhyped to institutional purchasers, then shoved down frontline employees’ throats because the vendor is good at navigating the sales and compliance labyrinth to secure deals. T…

>because the vendor is good at navigating the sales and compliance labyrinth to secure deals. it's not just that. Alexandr Wang from Scale AI once said in a talk that they had to compete against Palantir for a gov contract. Palantir's salesmen have a high closing rate because they sell the software as if it were written by God itself. It's one hell of a sales strategy

What exactly is the incredible sales strategy here, overhyping to the point of blatant dishonesty? That's hardly unique...

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#346

Post by ryan_lane »

mft_ wrote: post #312
R_D_Olivaw wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes yes, shoot mothers in the face in her car. Grab human beings from their homes and detain them thousands of miles away with no due process. Send human beings to detention camps in another country NOT the one they are from Please, people, have some decency and maintain the nuance. We're not barbarians here! Sheesh.

I'm neutral here, but I think the person you're replying to already covered your points when they wrote > It’s possible to simultaneously believe that ICE has a clear and ethical mandate while also believing that they are going about fulfilling that mandate via bad methods that need to change.

That isn't written in good faith, though. It's a "both sides" argument that's clearly written from a particular side.

> ICE has a clear and ethical mandate

It doesn't, given the current administration. It's somewhat questionable in general, given that being in the country illegally isn't a felony (or criminal) in itself. We have local law enforcement that can handle cases of illegal actions, regardless of immigration status, and actual crimes can and do lead to deportation.

The vast majority of people being targeted, via mandate, are not criminals. The mandate of the current administration also includes protestors, regardless of citizenship status.

So, no, that person didn't cover the points, and your neutrality here is also written in a way that backs up that person, so that's also somewhat questionable.

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#347

Post by senordevnyc »

dragonwriter wrote: post #273
periodjet wrote: post #134

Why have we all lost the ability to think in a nuanced way? It’s very disturbing to witness, particularly on a forum like HN, ostensibly populated by smart people. It’s possible to simultaneously believe that ICE has a clear and ethical mandate while also believing that they are going about fulfilling that mandate via bad methods that need to change. It’s possible to simultaneously believe that people shouldn’t be ma…

> It’s possible to simultaneously believe that ICE has a clear and ethical mandate while also believing that they are going about fulfilling that mandate via bad methods that need to change. Yes, that it is a set of things that it is possible one could believe. That is not an argument for it being a set of things that one ought to believe, as opposed to that ICE has a legal mandate that it isn't actually pursuing , a…

A queue is at best an undesirable consequences of particular choices about how to manage concerns about quantitative levels of immigration and particular impacts those levels might have, not an ideal to be pursued.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#348

Post by senordevnyc »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #197
Altern4tiveAcc wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s possible to simultaneously believe that ICE has a clear and ethical mandate ... "We" (a lot of people, not everyone who posts here) don't believe that. Lots of people disagree with immigration control as a concept period. The existence of that app is an abomination; the fact tax payer money is being allocated to it is tragicomic. Not spending it and just giving it as tax returns to the population would be so m…

> ... "We" (a lot of people, not everyone who posts here) don't believe that. Lots of people disagree with immigration control as a concept period. I mean sure but you have to acknowledge that is an extremely fringe belief that basically no one in the USA supports. The debate is on "how" it's being done not that we shouldn't have immigration control.

Why is this being downvoted? The primary reason Trump was able to win is because Biden waited until it was far too late to address the surge of illegal immigration at the southern border. We don't have to wonder or argue about whether Americans support open borders, we already had something mildly in that direction (that still didn't remotely approach the idea of "no immigration control, period"), and in response Americans voted into office Donald Trump.

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#349

Post by yndoendo »

db48x wrote: post #163
datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This almost makes it funnier? As if it’s the folly of creators to believe that their creations are by virtue untethered to morals and ethics, and it’s only through their use by amoral or unethical actors that they become so.

Tools are always neutral. The hammer doesn't become evil merely because you used it to bash someone's brains in. Tools do not make choices; humans do.

Let say someone creates a tool, an android which is designed to kill everyone that believes in a religion the creator does not like. Is that tool neutral?

Only way to repurpose that tool is to destroy part if the tool and replace parts. It is now a different tool.

I say intention of the tool design dictates if the tool is "neutral". That hammer analogy is tool simplistic to the tools we can now create and are attempting to create.

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#350

Post by tdeck »

fudged71 wrote: post #150

To tech leaders and hiring managers at other companies: If you're reading this, please consider publicly stating that your company will interview Palantir engineers who want to exit on moral grounds. Create an explicit off-ramp. Lower the barrier to leaving. Make it a tech industry norm that we offer refuge to engineers trying to do the right thing.

Palantir had a shit reputation 12 years ago when I graduated from college. I'm not sure folks who couldn't figure that out until now are very principled.
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