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Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

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Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#341

Post by Marsymars »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #297
billti wrote: post #13

I think the timing of the Cybertruck starting deliveries roughly aligning with when Elon got heavily involved in politics hurt it quite a bit. It is such a distinctive vehicle with a strong association with Elon, that there was an immediate brand association. It may have had poor sales anyway, but it certainly didn't help that many folks on the left, who are typically the most 'pro EV', had a large 'anti-Elon' shift…

I'm very much on the left, and I honestly like the design of the Cybertruck. (I know this puts me in a minority.) It is disappointing that the original "unibody" design was abandoned. The new design where the body panels just randomly fall off is silly. If it was made by some other company I would genuinely consider buying one. But I would never buy another Tesla. I owned an older Model X, before Elon went full-fasci…

> I'm very much on the left, and I honestly like the design of the Cybertruck. (I know this puts me in a minority.) It is disappointing that the original "unibody" design was abandoned. The new design where the body panels just randomly fall off is silly.

Function should drive form. The design would be cool if it was for a cool function.

Say you have a beautifully-made, expertly-weighted tack hammer. That looks cool on your work bench and works well. If you refashion the hammer into a kitchen spoon, it looks dumb in the kitchen and works poorly for stirring a pot.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#342

Post by scottyah »

iAMkenough wrote: post #214
jlarocco wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, both the Lightning and the Cybertruck are just bad trucks. Some review of the Lightning I read said it has less than a 100 mile range towing a full load. It's a fashion statement, not a work vehicle.

I counted 49 pickup trucks with empty beds in the parking garage downtown this morning.

I counted 50 sedans with empty seats in the parking garage downtown this morning.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#343

Post by Ostrogoth »

vablings wrote: post #116
everdrive wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heartbreaking but true. The most popular pickups today are not the most useful pickups. There are no more basic utilitarian pickups any longer, at least in the US. Pickups are a little bit interesting in this regard. For any given model (eg: Tacoma, Frontier, etc.) the more premium the truck, the worse it is at being a truck. Each feature you add reduces its payload, and in the case of the Frontier, you could drop fr…

I would be willing to say that a small Japanese kei truck is more than the average American would ever need for hauling furnishings, appliances and lumber. If you really need something bigger renting a trailer or truck is dirt cheap

>If you really need something bigger renting a trailer or truck is dirt cheap

It’s neither convenient nor cheap to rent a trailer in much of the US. Major cities have options, rural areas less so. Full disclosure I have a mid-sized pickup, but I recently looked into renting a trailer for a landscaping project that was above the weight limit for my truck. First issue I ran into was that there were not any trailers available for rent anywhere near my location. Second issue was that after factoring in driving distance + rental cost + dump fees, it was ~ the same price just to pay a junk company to haul the materials…and it was not cheap. Anecdotally, my pickup was cheaper than most other vehicle options at the time I bought it, my commute is short (so fuel economy is less an issue), and as a homeowner I use the bed to haul something at least once/month (Unfortunately kei trucks weren’t available at the time). So the cost/benefit/convenience factor of owning a truck over renting a trailer works for me. YMMV.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#344

Post by ceejayoz »

mdavid626 wrote: post #188
ceejayoz wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have worse prices (higher) Does this factor in cost of ownership? Gas, oil changes, less complexity? > worse range (lower, particularly for towing) Towing reduces a gas powered car’s range, too.

(Towing) You can fill it up in 5 min. Not true for EV.

Pop in for a pee and a snack. In the 15-20 mins that takes, you'll have a good amount of charge.

Towing is also a bit of an edge case.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-siz...

> According to Edwards’ data, 75 percent of truck owners use their truck for towing one time a year or less (meaning, never). Nearly 70 percent of truck owners go off-road one time a year or less. And a full 35 percent of truck owners use their truck for hauling—putting something in the bed, its ostensible raison d’être—once a year or less.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#345

Post by brandonmenc »

rationalist wrote: post #255
pixl97 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and renting a chainsaw or other appropriate tool when necessary, I don't think most people realize how expensive and time consuming tool rental is. This is where things also get kind of messy in the US. In manicured suburbs you probably don't need a chainsaw. But in older growth and places with larger lots you really do need one. If you wait till you need one after a big storm, you may travel 100 miles out of the s…

> I don't think most people realize how expensive and time consuming tool rental is. Same with truck rentals.

People seriously underestimate how much trouble a pickup truck rental from U-Haul can be.

I’ve wasted so much time trying to track down which location near me has one available on the exact day I want to do major yard work. Often I have to reschedule my work or plan out super far in advance. Or take a day off during the week because everyone else also wants to rent trucks on the weekend. Then I’m running against the clock the whole time.

An extra $100-$200 a month car payment to have a truck instead of a crossover is totally worth it.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#346

Post by alexjplant »

criddell wrote: post #289
jahsome wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's just been trying to buy a crappy used truck to haul some crap to the dump a couple times a year, you're absolutely spot on. I even live in the southwest US where trucks make up a considerable portion of vehicles on the road. Crappy used trucks simply aren't up for sale. And even the rare listing I do come across, the asking price is ridiculously inflated.

If you only need a truck a couple of times per year, maybe it makes more sense to rent one?

Not even. When I lived in the boonies trash service was ~$75 a quarter, the local hardware store would deliver pallets of mulch for free, and furniture stores offered free delivery above certain purchase amounts. My buddy's dad would haul your boat between the marina and your house for a flat fee. Hell, I was able to cram a full PA with floor monitors and a few guitars into my Corolla for weekend band gigs.

I started looking into getting a trailer or hitch hauler but it didn't seem to make much sense. I could usually pay somebody on-demand to move stuff around and it always worked out to be cheaper than owning and maintaining a truck. I presently work from home and don't even own a car anymore; the math is quite similar with rideshare and motorcycle maintenance coming in significantly cheaper.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#347

Post by scottyah »

olyjohn wrote: post #238
jandrese wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be amazing in the city if it weren't two lanes wide.

Its not amazing in the city. The turning radius on the cybertruck is atrocious. Go look it up and quit believing the marketing bullshit.

It's great, maybe stop looking it up and go drive one?

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#348

Post by Marsymars »

idontwantthis wrote: post #64
subpixel wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I really want a Lightning but live in a very rural place, weekend in an even more rural place, and need to pull a trailer pretty often. I already have a plug-in hybrid that gets 40+ miles/charge and have opined all over the internet that the perfect car is one that gets 100+ miles/charge before firing any gas engine. It sounds like the next Lightning will give me that though I don’t put much stock in thei…

I don’t get plug in hybrids. All other engine types save you more money compared to the next less efficient alternative the more you use them, but plugins get closer to the less efficient alternative (regular hybrid) the more you use them. Add in the approximately 25% price hike over the hybrid version when there is one and it makes no sense to me.

Depends on the car and driving patterns. I've got a friend with the PHEV Escape that he charges in his garage. It's the cheapest hybrid Escape that Ford sells, and he does all his driving on EV mode unless he has to do a longer trip outside of the city.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#349

Post by JeremyNT »

billti wrote: post #13

I think the timing of the Cybertruck starting deliveries roughly aligning with when Elon got heavily involved in politics hurt it quite a bit. It is such a distinctive vehicle with a strong association with Elon, that there was an immediate brand association. It may have had poor sales anyway, but it certainly didn't help that many folks on the left, who are typically the most 'pro EV', had a large 'anti-Elon' shift…

I mean as with most "product" things related to Musk, it's more about the meme stock than any fundamental coupling to finances in the real world.

Ford is a car company. They sell cars. The Lightning was a poorly selling car, so they stopped selling it. Pretty simple!

Tesla is a lifestyle company. They make line go up by owning the libs, catering to edgelord identity, and triggering speculation. The Cybertruck probably gained the company more memetic shareholder value than it lost as a real product.

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