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Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

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Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#341

Post by aiahs »

taeric wrote: post #189
yomismoaqui wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motivation is fleeting but routine persists. When there is something that you want to do regularly (exercise, doing the final boring part of some sideproject, cleaning the house...) you remove willpower from the equation and set a day and a time. For example, everyday from 18 to 19 I work on my sideprojects, or saturdays from 16 to 18 is house cleaning time. There is no question if I want to do it, it is set at that…

As someone that is unable to keep any sort of routine, I have objections here. :D Without some sort of obligating circumstance, it is incredibly easy to forego what would have otherwise been today's routine.

What worked for me was a thing I started with one of my best friends, where we're accountability buddies for each other. We both pick topics/habits we wanna foster and then talk once a week about how that went the last week. In my case I chose exercise (going a certain number of times per week), and there were quite a few moments already, where I'm sure I would've just skipped if I didn't have this construct. It basically created this social obligation to keep the habit. I can really really recommend it if you wanna try it out with someone.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#342

Post by sizzle »

lazarus01 wrote: post #215
sizzle wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are assuming everyone has someone to take long walks with and speak their innermost vulnerable thoughts/feelings with. A therapist is a paid person to achieve this same outcome.

No I’m not. Please read the first sentence of my post. I agree, it’s tough to be honest when you’re vulnerable. Expressing vulnerability exposes how people really feel about you.

You’re right I missed that. We’re in agreement then

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#343

Post by [deleted] »

femto wrote: post #225
yomismoaqui wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motivation is fleeting but routine persists. When there is something that you want to do regularly (exercise, doing the final boring part of some sideproject, cleaning the house...) you remove willpower from the equation and set a day and a time. For example, everyday from 18 to 19 I work on my sideprojects, or saturdays from 16 to 18 is house cleaning time. There is no question if I want to do it, it is set at that…

The key I found was to avoid self flagellation. Try your hardest to do each session, but if you miss a session don't try to make it up. Just get on and do a normal session the next time it falls due. You're in it for the long term, so long term it doesn't matter if you were intermittent when building the habit, or the occasional session gets missed for a reason.

[deleted]

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#344

Post by Ostrogoth »

femto wrote: post #225
yomismoaqui wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motivation is fleeting but routine persists. When there is something that you want to do regularly (exercise, doing the final boring part of some sideproject, cleaning the house...) you remove willpower from the equation and set a day and a time. For example, everyday from 18 to 19 I work on my sideprojects, or saturdays from 16 to 18 is house cleaning time. There is no question if I want to do it, it is set at that…

The key I found was to avoid self flagellation. Try your hardest to do each session, but if you miss a session don't try to make it up. Just get on and do a normal session the next time it falls due. You're in it for the long term, so long term it doesn't matter if you were intermittent when building the habit, or the occasional session gets missed for a reason.

I’m on this journey myself; learning to become more emotionally well-regulated, and kinder to myself. For years I had depression, and I used self-flagellation and self-loathing as drivers to motivate myself to do better. In work, hobbies, fitness, relationships…everything. I would unfairly criticize, disdain, and lash out in anger at myself, in ways I would never treat another person. My baseline emotional state skewed negative, and I’ve realized I was suppressing or dissociating from emotions entirely. It took a while to realize I wasn’t coping well. I made improvements over many years time, but sometimes still fall back into old default patterns. I finally hired a therapist to work through stuff and develop better emotional health and cognitive strategies. Started with just checking-in and recognizing emotions, and being more fair and kind to myself, which in turn helps to respond to everyday circumstances more objectively. It has helped immensely, and I don’t think I could have made the same progress without a neutral third party. I highly encourage anyone in a similar place to hire a therapist; it can be hard to find someone you meld with, but it’s worth it.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#345

Post by Ostrogoth »

phil21 wrote: post #167
smeej wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no question if I want to do it, it is set at that time and I have to do it, period. Gosh it must be nice to have at least an ordinary amount of executive function skills. Is it really this easy for neurotypical people to build routines? That's really all it takes? I don't see how this removes willpower at all. It just determines what time you have to use it.

I have utterly horrible executive function. Diagnosed and everything. Sitting here on HN right now avoiding boring spreadsheet work to finish my day out. It’s not easy for anyone to develop these style of habits and routines. It’s just hard mode and takes much more effort for folks with executive dysfunction. The first rule is choose one thing and stick to it. With realistic goals. Mine was: I am going to walk at lea…

> I find routine and habits over schedule and calendaring

I find the same. To keep myself honest, I built a simple habit tracking sheet (grid paper; 1 page/month; x axis list items; y axis list days). Keep it simple to reduce friction, no more than a handful of items, and try to stack habits and routines. Focus on anchor points of the day like sleep/work/exercise/nutrition/meal prep/tidy house. I’ll also track non-action items like coffee/alcohol/anxiety/video games/book reading, etc. Include the process as part of end of day wind down and reflection.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#346

Post by master-12 »

jimnotgym wrote: post #330
andy99 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should try doing 1/2 hour of exercise after you get back. It will make you feel way better, especially mentally.

That sounds like a good plan, thanks. It made me think an exercise bike right where I change from work, would make me remember to actually do it! Thanks again

I hope this will work for you. I wish you good luck.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#347

Post by paulryanrogers »

kubanczyk wrote: post #317
paulryanrogers wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if my point was lost in the rant. IME the younger generations are facing an increasingly large burden of must-do's with less slack for them to make any other choices. Growing housing, healthcare, and societal expectations combined with fewer employment opportunities are leaving little room for them to chart their own course. Some might say it's offset by all the luxuries so widely available. But I personally fi…

It sounds as if you are filing a complaint, but I'm afraid chargebacks are out of question. You have been scammed and given a non-perfect generation to live in.

I'd argue we shouldn't so quickly throw off the solutions of past generations, like protesting, unions, social safety nets, independent branches of government, and rejecting apathy and religion.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#348

Post by Rendello »

chrneu wrote: post #32
throw128 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal obviously, but from my experiences and those in my friend-group, therapy seems actively harmful in many circumstances. Therapy can be an enabler of bad behavior, helping to build a new fancy framework of excuses just as easily as it can help you land somewhere better. How long has it been since you've seen something bad (maybe it was just slightly selfish, maybe it was something worse and chronic) waved awa…

> Therapy can be an enabler of bad behavior Be aware that a lot of therapists are aware of this and actively try not to do this. Unfortunately, services like BetterHealth allow clients to select their therapists in ways which results in people doctor shopping to get what they want. Doctors want to get paid so they'll say/do whatever to keep clients. It's like the antibiotic issue with internal medicine. People will s…

That's one of the interesting paradoxes to me: everyone I know who's had therapy says you need to "shop around" and find the right fit.

On the one hand, I feel this is right. With dentists and doctors, second opinions are important because we all know people who have had years of their lives or physical health ruined due to quick doctor's visits where the doctor was light on time, patience, and information.

At the same time, it seems like it can be like that episode of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia where they just keep firing their arbitrators until they find one that isn't concerned with ethicality.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#349

Post by synecdoche »

jimnotgym wrote: post #330
andy99 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should try doing 1/2 hour of exercise after you get back. It will make you feel way better, especially mentally.

That sounds like a good plan, thanks. It made me think an exercise bike right where I change from work, would make me remember to actually do it! Thanks again

Even better in my opinion and experience, exercise during lunch break, if possible. Being drained after work can feel like too high barrier to get started exercising.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#350

Post by synecdoche »

roguechimpanzee wrote: post #199
andy99 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People would rather blame external factors and not take responsibility. It’s actually insulting to people who work hard that some people assume they have it easy somehow, like the “must be nice” comment upstream. Not everyone takes the view that you can’t control what happens to you, it’s pretty easy to see who does.

You can actually just choose to lock in. And you don't need a perfect streak. Waking up early, working out and eating a nutritious breakfast is a perfect morning for probably 90% of people but our society is so broken that being healthy is associated with being either a grifter or a fascist.

Not everyone needs breakfast and still eat healthily. A longer fasting period is even an argument against it. But to each their own.
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