The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app • Hacker News Board

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#341

Post by wolvoleo » Fri, Jan 09, 2026, 7:58 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #333

ryandrake wrote: post #309

The biggest "evil" that has been committed (and is still being committed) against computing has been normalizing this idea of not having root access to a device you supposedly own. That having root access to your computer, and therefore being the ultimate authority over what gets run on it, is bad or risky or dangerous. That "sideloading" is weird and needs a separate name, and is not the normal case of simply loadin…

It’s not an evil at all. For 99% of people who aren’t “computer people”, when we gave them that, we got the Bonzai Buddy and 47 other malware toolbars installed. Did we forget 2003 already? App sandboxing and system file integrity is one of the most beneficial security features of modern computing, and the vast majority of people have no desire to turn it off. You can buy rootable phones. People overwhelmingly choose…

> App sandboxing and system file integrity is one of the most beneficial security features of modern computing,

You can have sandboxing and system integrity while still giving the user overrides. But hey this is not Google and Apple's business model because it makes you less dependent on them. And it interferes with their sweet 30% rent-seeking app stores.

Mobile security works this way not because it's best for us but because it's best for making them money.

> You can buy rootable phones.

Eh yeah but the problem is of course being locked out of apps if you actually root it.

I don't want Google or Apple to decide what I can do with my phone. Or the government like in this case. This also opens the door for evil spyware like chatcontrol in europe. Even today they are trying to enforce a backdoor into whatsapp to block "harmful content" which is of course impossible without breaking or circumventing the E2E on-device.

> People overwhelmingly choose iPhones instead.

Maybe in America, not here in Spain. I guess not in Vietnam either.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#342

Post by hephaes7us » Fri, Jan 09, 2026, 7:58 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #333

ryandrake wrote: post #309

The biggest "evil" that has been committed (and is still being committed) against computing has been normalizing this idea of not having root access to a device you supposedly own. That having root access to your computer, and therefore being the ultimate authority over what gets run on it, is bad or risky or dangerous. That "sideloading" is weird and needs a separate name, and is not the normal case of simply loadin…

It’s not an evil at all. For 99% of people who aren’t “computer people”, when we gave them that, we got the Bonzai Buddy and 47 other malware toolbars installed. Did we forget 2003 already? App sandboxing and system file integrity is one of the most beneficial security features of modern computing, and the vast majority of people have no desire to turn it off. You can buy rootable phones. People overwhelmingly choose…

The evil is enshrining other people's choices into law, unnecessarily.

There was never going to be anything preventing non-technical folks from buying iPhones. They can and should have what they like.

Why should there be a law that forces that same compromise onto anyone who can only afford a single device and needs to use it to access their bank?

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#343

Post by ryandrake » Fri, Jan 09, 2026, 7:59 PM UTC

SoftTalker wrote: post #279

gabrielhidasy wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll bet the confusion stems from the rest of the world having essentially forgotten what is a check/cheque almost a generation ago. I only used them twice in my life, last one was in 2012 and I had to get a supervisor at the bank to find the procedure to get a checkbook at the time.

In the US, a lot of small employers still issue paper payroll checks.

Maybe it's different for non-homeowners or people without kids. Just looking back at my records for about 2 years, I've written 36 paper checks in that time, not including the "online bill pay" provided by my bank which are often just physical checks they send in the mail: Kids extracurricular activities, school PTA donations, memberships in local clubs, pool service, home improvement jobs like fences and concrete, appliance repair, and, of course, property taxes.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#344

Post by wolvoleo » Fri, Jan 09, 2026, 7:59 PM UTC

Terretta wrote: post #288

aspbee555 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the iPhone still does bluetooth transmissions/pings even in airplane mode (the find my device thing) and no way to disable the only way to disable any transmissions is to turn off the device

> iPhone still does bluetooth transmissions/pings even in airplane mode ... the only way to disable any transmissions is to turn off the device I used to be under the impression that: - Airplane Mode via Control Center icon, true. - Cellular, WiFi, and Bluetooth off, via Settings, not true. Meaning, if you turn those off specifically, you are not talking to towers or access points or broadcasting a persistent bluetoo…

Yes in settings it turns it completely off. I verified it once with a BT sniffer.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#345

Post by graemep » Fri, Jan 09, 2026, 8:02 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #309

The biggest "evil" that has been committed (and is still being committed) against computing has been normalizing this idea of not having root access to a device you supposedly own. That having root access to your computer, and therefore being the ultimate authority over what gets run on it, is bad or risky or dangerous. That "sideloading" is weird and needs a separate name, and is not the normal case of simply loadin…

It is also interesting that yet another government is prepared to increase its reliance on American big tech.

I do not know whether Vietnam has any pretence of digital sovereignty, but many countries that do are doing this like this to actively move away from it.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#346

Post by fn-mote » Fri, Jan 09, 2026, 8:02 PM UTC

sorokod wrote: post #268

kennywinker wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re not using it regularly, why would you need anything except security updates?

You will also need to accommodate the banking apps updates, banks will not support very old versions of their apps( very old varies but probably about a few months ). Beyond that the new versions may require hardware support that may not be available in a decade old phone.

History here is they will require a recent OS version even if it is unnecessary.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#347

Post by hephaes7us » Fri, Jan 09, 2026, 8:02 PM UTC

LoganDark wrote: post #340

sneak wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not an evil at all. For 99% of people who aren’t “computer people”, when we gave them that, we got the Bonzai Buddy and 47 other malware toolbars installed. Did we forget 2003 already? App sandboxing and system file integrity is one of the most beneficial security features of modern computing, and the vast majority of people have no desire to turn it off. You can buy rootable phones. People overwhelmingly choose…

The problem is mostly that normal people can't be trusted with system-level access but some people can. And it's literally, provably not possible to tell them apart. For the masses, lack of system-level access is a benefit because they won't be able to ruin their device. For hackers and hobbyists, lack of system-level access is a hindrance because they won't be able to control their device.

In other areas of life, people self-select at their own risk. You can diagnose medical issues yourself, buy power tools you don't know how to use safely, and invest in assets that you don't understand.

All other things being equal, we should try to protect people. But we shouldn't force everyone to make the choices that are best for the people with the least comprehension of what they're doing.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#348

Post by fn-mote » Fri, Jan 09, 2026, 8:02 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #326

miloignis wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also a big GrapheneOS user, but I'm lucky enough that my banking and authentication apps run fine on GrapheneOS, so no need for a second phone. If they stopped, I think I would seriously consider swapping banks and whatever else instead of using a different OS.

There are enough non-shitty banks and credit unions, at least in the US, that you should be able to easily switch banks to a better one. They have no moat.

The most is ATM access if you want that.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#349

Post by sgc » Fri, Jan 09, 2026, 8:03 PM UTC

Security question:

Could we have the same level of security - or very close to it - from requiring a secure enclave like a vm running on the device for banking apps with hardware passthrough, or would there be no way for that vm to verify it has actual hardware passthrough and that it's not being tampered with?

That way you would just get the entire vm with the app from the Play Store or Apple, and nobody needs to worry about root?

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#350

Post by chrneu » Fri, Jan 09, 2026, 8:03 PM UTC

graemep wrote: post #345

ryandrake wrote: post #309

The biggest "evil" that has been committed (and is still being committed) against computing has been normalizing this idea of not having root access to a device you supposedly own. That having root access to your computer, and therefore being the ultimate authority over what gets run on it, is bad or risky or dangerous. That "sideloading" is weird and needs a separate name, and is not the normal case of simply loadin…

It is also interesting that yet another government is prepared to increase its reliance on American big tech. I do not know whether Vietnam has any pretence of digital sovereignty, but many countries that do are doing this like this to actively move away from it.

isnt europe basically going through this trying to decouple itself from AWS and Azure and other american tech?