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Waymo halts service during S.F. blackout after causing traffic jams

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Re: Waymo halts service during S.F. blackout after causing traffic jams

#341

Post by necovek »

dragonwriter wrote: post #286
dmix wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was the better solution here then? Assuming there's hundreds or thousands of self-driving cars suddenly driving in environment without any traffic lights. In the pictures you can see six Waymo cars at a single intersection. Assuming some of them had passengers should they all try to turn at the intersection anyway, when their LIDAR says the lane is likely free and pull over to the side? Is that the safest option…

> Assuming there's hundreds or thousands of self-driving cars suddenly driving in environment without any traffic lights. Self-driving cars should (1) know how to handle stops, and (2) know that the rules for a failed traffic light (or one flashing red) are those for an all-way stop.

In a traffic jam situation, all-way stop is a "blocked intersection" if every vehicle obeyed it strictly (if there are cars coming from every direction, nobody has right of way and you can't apply the rule of yielding right).

Humans, luckily, never follow the rules to the letter, which made it reasonable to put them down like this: some will be more impatient/aggressive, others will establish eye contact and wave one another through, etc.

In a situation like this where you've got "drivers" who can't collaborate and learn on the spot, the rule does not make sense.

Re: Waymo halts service during S.F. blackout after causing traffic jams

#342

Post by necovek »

Most intersections I've seen in Serbia cities like Belgrade have "preferential" roads even if they are equally loaded and similarly sized: so, one direction will have either "stop" or "yield" signs, and another will not. Everyone slows down because you don't see the stop/yield sign for the orthogonal streets until you come closer to the intersection.

Perhaps we are just more used to traffic lights being off/broken (and we are, as this is, anecdotally, more like a weekly occurrence at some point during your trip to work, for instance)?

Re: Waymo halts service during S.F. blackout after causing traffic jams

#343

Post by userbinator »

suzzer99 wrote: post #260
cjsplat wrote: post #193

I was driving across the east side of SF and hit a patch of lights that were out. The Waymo's were just going really slow through the intersection. It seemed that the "light is out means 4-way stop" dynamic caused them to go into ultra-timid mode. And of course the human drivers did the typical slow and roll, with decent interleaving. The result was that each Waymo took about 4x as long to get through the intersectio…

I got stuck behind a Zoox in SF trying to cross the street from an alley. There was an endless stream of stop & go traffic and the Zoox refused to push itself into traffic, despite other cars deliberately giving it space. I wasn't sure if honking at it would help or hurt the situation.

I'm not sure if it even knows it's being honked at.

Re: Waymo halts service during S.F. blackout after causing traffic jams

#344

Post by mindslight »

cjsplat wrote: post #193

I was driving across the east side of SF and hit a patch of lights that were out. The Waymo's were just going really slow through the intersection. It seemed that the "light is out means 4-way stop" dynamic caused them to go into ultra-timid mode. And of course the human drivers did the typical slow and roll, with decent interleaving. The result was that each Waymo took about 4x as long to get through the intersectio…

> And of course I saw one driver get pissed off and drive around a Waymo that was advancing slowly, with the predictable result that the Waymo stopped and lost three more slots through the intersection.

Why are you saying they got pissed off? Going around another vehicle that is blocking the road sounds like basic driving to me.

Re: Waymo halts service during S.F. blackout after causing traffic jams

#345

Post by phil21 »

bsder wrote: post #334
ycombobreaker wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will you also complain when enough Waymo cars start running on the freeways that a couple of them in a row can effectively enforce following distances and speed limits, for example? In my state, that would itself be a traffic violation, so yes I would. The leftmost lane on an interstate highway is reserved for passing. An autonomous vehicle cruising in that lane (regardless of speed) would therefore be programmed i…

> The leftmost lane on an interstate highway is reserved for passing. Sadly, in most states, this is not true anymore. Most of those laws have been repealed. I was very pleasantly surprised when I was in Colorado that they had explicit signs saying that if you had 5 (I think) or more cars behind you that you were supposed to pull right and let them pass. However, I wasn't really thinking about a Waymo cruising in the…

I was under the impression these laws have become much more common over the past decade or two when they were a rarity beforehand. My home state (MN) for example didn’t have one for the first 15 years or so of me driving. Much to my chagrin after I learned about how much better life can be by spending time in a state (KY) where it was strictly enforced by both social convention and law enforcement.

Surprisingly it seems to even be moderately enforced these days even in Minnesota, which I’d have bet money on never happening since it’s a state pastime to play passive aggressive traffic cop for many.

https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/1fuw97s/a_cool_...

Perhaps not the most trusted source on the matter, but at a glance it seems more or less the vast majority of states have laws that effectively “ban” slow moving traffic in the left lane from impeding traffic. Enforcement I’m sure will be all over the map - likely down to even a county level within individual states.

While I do wish all states were “purple” or above in that map, the situation seems largely up to how state patrol and other agencies want to enforce it.

I’ve seen it enforced now with my own two eyes in KY, WI, MN, and IL.

Re: Waymo halts service during S.F. blackout after causing traffic jams

#346

Post by phil21 »

delfinom wrote: post #324
mmooss wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are people in the Waymos. It's like not moving parked cars.

The jaws of life can make quick work of any locked doors before continuing to bulldoze a car out of the way.

Waymo doesn’t lock you into the vehicle does it? Would seem like kidnapping to me if so.

Re: Waymo halts service during S.F. blackout after causing traffic jams

#347

Post by phil21 »

philipallstar wrote: post #212
blibble wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if google's property is blocking the road, google can pay for the damage

As long as you're happy that if your property ever blocks the road, you will pay for the damage too.

This is the current norm. If you are parked in front of a fire hydrant or in a fire lane when the needful happens, the fire department will remove you with prejudice. My few volunteer fire department family members take a certain gleeful joy in expediting your exit from the area when the rare opportunity presents itself.

Chances are the damage will be solely on your vehicle, as fire trucks and police vehicles are equipped to push stuff off the road without damage to their equipment.

Re: Waymo halts service during S.F. blackout after causing traffic jams

#348

Post by casey2 »

smugma wrote: post #268
cjsplat wrote: post #193

I was driving across the east side of SF and hit a patch of lights that were out. The Waymo's were just going really slow through the intersection. It seemed that the "light is out means 4-way stop" dynamic caused them to go into ultra-timid mode. And of course the human drivers did the typical slow and roll, with decent interleaving. The result was that each Waymo took about 4x as long to get through the intersectio…

Failed pretty badly but no reported injuries or even accidents so not that badly. And if you’re Waymo, it’s a short-term reputation hit but great experience to learn from and improve.

[flagged]

Re: Waymo halts service during S.F. blackout after causing traffic jams

#349

Post by culi »

philistine wrote: post #70
beAbU wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can further optimize the setup by not installing engines/motors in all of them. So maybe you have one car providing locomotion, with the rest following behind and designed for carrying.

If we do all of that, then we won't need to train them to know how to operate in traffic. Perhaps we can give them a name in honour of that fact?

untrains!

Re: Waymo halts service during S.F. blackout after causing traffic jams

#350

Post by shawn_w »

casey2 wrote: post #348
smugma wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Failed pretty badly but no reported injuries or even accidents so not that badly. And if you’re Waymo, it’s a short-term reputation hit but great experience to learn from and improve.

[flagged]

/Programmers/ can.
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