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Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

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Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#341

Post by renewiltord »

cs702 wrote: post #254

According to the Financial Times, Roomba has sold more than 40 million robotic devices, most of them robotic vacuum cleaners.[a] Many of those vacuum cleaners have cameras, can move around on their own, and are connected to the Internet. If they're taken offline, they stop working. Many have microphones too. The new Chinese owner will get control of a network of tens of millions Internet-connected, autonomously mobil…

Well, not to worry. The Biden Admin FTC and the EU ensured this outcome in the interest of making sure consumer rights are protected. Therefore, consumer rights must be better protected in this scenario.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#342

Post by freen »

renewiltord wrote: post #341
cs702 wrote: post #254

According to the Financial Times, Roomba has sold more than 40 million robotic devices, most of them robotic vacuum cleaners.[a] Many of those vacuum cleaners have cameras, can move around on their own, and are connected to the Internet. If they're taken offline, they stop working. Many have microphones too. The new Chinese owner will get control of a network of tens of millions Internet-connected, autonomously mobil…

Well, not to worry. The Biden Admin FTC and the EU ensured this outcome in the interest of making sure consumer rights are protected. Therefore, consumer rights must be better protected in this scenario.

Biden Admin?

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#343

Post by Zigurd »

throw2837374 wrote: post #287
expedition32 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny that we are running into the same problem that the British had with China in the 19th century: China doesn't need or want anything from the West, they do not trust the West and they certainly do not want to rely on the West. The last time the British came up with the ingenuous opium plan. But that backfired into the communist takeover in 1949.

China loves KFC. There are other American brands that do well such as Nike, The North Face, Coach, Polo, and Estee Lauder. And while Hollywood movies have been in decline in China, Zootopia 2 did amazingly well recently.

15 years ago I would've agreed. I saw SUVs with obvious BMW inspired styling cues that had manufacturers badges that were conveniently the same place and the same size as the BMW roundel. I saw Starbucks and Pizza Hut look-alikes. I saw the dismay on the barista's face when I ordered a coffee drink instead of tea. They regarded the US with a sense of awe. When I told my Chinese colleagues it was unlikely that the US would lead the way in nuclear power because only China could do it at enough scale to succeed, they were shocked.

Now the Chinese have their own expensive coffee brands. They even have what one could call private equity with Chinese characteristics: private equity in China is strategic, mostly minority stakes, and often behaves like late stage VC.

I'm not making a moral comparison here. The impact of bad PE deals in China is that an often technology oriented pre-IPO company goes bust, whereas in the US your local hospital will close. Make up your own mind which is worse.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#344

Post by shellfishgene »

typewithrhythm wrote: post #226
mlrtime wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes sense, are there any expamples of the Chinese leading in a market + R&D yet?

Every category I can think of where China is near-first there is some international manufacturer that has a better product. Several areas where there are much higher volumes or outstandingly better value though. Things like automotive lidar, construction assemblys (like double glazed window units), consumer electronics like quadcopters.

How about the thread topic, robot vacuums? I don't think any other country can even compete anymore, I can't think of any top non-Chinese model.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#345

Post by user_7832 »

mystraline wrote: post #315
sandworm101 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An employee of that company sells footage of you to a scam center. They then blackmail you.

[flagged]

> The Chinese aren't the ones running massive scam orgs backed by their government. They're bust teaching up and innovating on a massive scale. The scammers would be in India, backed by their government.

That's patently false. The "Indian Govt" isn't behind any scams any more than a random Sheriff abusing his power is a spokesperson for the White House - and that's generously assuming there are politicians with vested interests behind these, which I haven't seen anything to suggest.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#346

Post by jtbayly »

kqr wrote: post #289
cs702 wrote: post #254

According to the Financial Times, Roomba has sold more than 40 million robotic devices, most of them robotic vacuum cleaners.[a] Many of those vacuum cleaners have cameras, can move around on their own, and are connected to the Internet. If they're taken offline, they stop working. Many have microphones too. The new Chinese owner will get control of a network of tens of millions Internet-connected, autonomously mobil…

Our household (and I suspect many with us) bought a Roomba specifically to not give the Chinese government a roving camera in our home. Ouch!

[flagged]

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#347

Post by Der_Einzige »

hylaride wrote: post #301
aurareturn wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is complacency or is China just accelerating? It's not surprising that China wins in these things. Just go to Shenzhen. Hardware designers, parts, machines that make the parts, factories, etc. are all within driving distance. You can't compete unless you also have offices there, hire Chinese workers, compete in China. American companies need to start designing in China, not just made in China. Ford themselves said…

IMO, the US business industry has become over-financialised to the point of self-sabotage. R&D and capital expenditure are seen as "bad" things to have on accounting statements. Combine this with Jack Welsh type CEOs who do everything they can to cut out "costs" on financial statements and you get organizations like GE turned into (badly run) banks. Cisco is now essentially a publicly traded PE firm that buys up othe…

Everyone acts like the C8 corvette doesn’t exist when they shit on American cars. Actually GM is an innovative awesome company.

The C8 has topped many “top car” lists since it came out in 2020. The reviews on it are universally excellent and it gaps pretty much anything that the turn-signal hating BMW crowd manufactures both in literal performance and in design.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#348

Post by lotsofpulp »

dmantis wrote: post #179
furyg3 wrote: post #136

Are there any good robo-vacuum cleaners that will still clean your floor if the internet is down? I've had my Miele vacuum cleaner for 15 years now, and I bought it second hand. I can still buy bags and filters for it, and when the floor roller piece broke (something heavy fell on it) I was able to buy a replacement one for cheap. I see no reason why it can't go another 10 years. It feels like a very low probability…

For me it's so weird nobody makes a thing you can trust. I would happily overpay 3-4x for the good vacuum without the cloud and the need to do some hacking with valetudo, with an official service and support for the device. Yet nobody is willing to take the money. They'd rather go bankrupt..

> Yet nobody is willing to take the money.

It’s weird that you have identified this business opportunity with such confidence, but you are also unwilling to take the money.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#349

Post by AlecSchueler »

LunaSea wrote: post #262
AlecSchueler wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do American companies have to rely on artificial protections like IP in order to compete? Don't forget it's only "stealing" if you're culturally inclined to see IP as actual property, whereas in China the idea has long been that ideas are common good, even predating Marxism.

So stealing trade secrets is legal in China? Or do they publish all their IP on a government site for all to see?

They introduced more and more IP laws due to requirements from the WTO[https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/acc_e/completeacc_e.htm...]. At first they didn't prosecute them, then they did but only for foreign companies, and now we're at the stage where there's essentially legal parity.

Basically they had to play along to western rules that were baked into global institutions. But now they're getting to the point that they can start to lead the conversation.

Some further reading [0] could be a book like To Steal Is An Elegant Offense from William P. Alford for a longer history of the relationship to IP within Chinese society.

0: https://www.sup.org/books/asian-studies/steal-book-elegant-o...

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