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EFF launches Age Verification Hub

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Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#341

Post by wkat4242 »

EGreg wrote: post #334
wkat4242 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I don't want to prove myself in everything I do online?

I don’t want to follow many different laws. So inconvenient. I don’t want to stop at a red light if I see there are no cars around. It’s stupid. But…

No but this is exactly why I don't want this to become law. However yes if it does become law I will avoid it.

It is a big slippery slope aimed at destroying anonimity on the internet. Even if first attempts are privacy-preserving, it could still break the use of double accounts for example, something which I also use widely.

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#342

Post by kcplate »

Eisenstein wrote: post #248
kcplate wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying that perhaps 15-25 mins worth of porn video total throughout all of someone’s teenage years due to such rare access of the material would have a similar emotional and mental impact as having the ability to see that much daily for years as is possible now? There could have been years between the opportunities we had. I don’t think you conceptualize just how infrequent the opportunity would present its…

I'm not making any claims about mental or emotional impacts, you are. What are they?

A couple of comments above, you said: “Why would 'ease of access' make any difference if you didn't have easy access and got it anyway”

So exactly what is the target of the “difference” you are referring to then here? You are referencing a differential in something…if not psychological impact from the viewing of said material…what would that something be?

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#343

Post by jacobgkau »

Spivak wrote: post #338
maerF0x0 wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldnt just say "they can", the average first exposure to porn is ~10, so "they do". And this isnt some spicy magazine the issue with internet porn is that it's an intense supranormal stimuli relative to, say, a handful of images of which you have to do a ton of effort (and ID checks) to get more. Internet porn today is multi-tab, rapid desensitization requiring escalation in content, and an increase in young Porn…

Well I have to imagine any downvotes will come because most of this is pseudoscience. But you seem like you're replying in good faith so it's all good to me. * There is some research that the age of first exposure to porn is lower and there's speculation that this might affect attitudes towards sex in teens but there's nothing conclusive. * YourBrainOnPorn is most charitably a misreading of scientific literature juxt…

> Whole generations aren't being addicted to and made impotent by porn.

They literally are. Mostly men, though, so you might not really get it.

> There is an increase in ED prescriptions among young people but there's no evidence whatsoever that this is connected to porn and is much more plausible that there's just less stigma about it,

Yes, just like cancer rates and mental illnesses. The number increases aren't real, we're just getting better at detecting it. Surely, nothing ever gets worse in the world. /s

You're right, though, that most of this is pseudoscience. Most of the "problem" with porn is psychological, rather than strictly physical, and psychology is generally pseudoscience.

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#344

Post by jacobgkau »

wkat4242 wrote: post #229
jacobgkau wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parental control software has existed for decades. It hasn't worked. Over 70% of teenagers Yes, there were other ways of trying to solve the problem. Governments could've mandated explicit websites (which includes a lot of mainstream social media these days) include the RTA rating tag instead of it being a voluntary thing, which social media companies still would've fought; and governments could've also mandated all…

> Over 70% of teenagers And we all turned out fine I might add. In fact there's a lot more attention to consent and respect for women than 20 years ago. Of course not counting the toxic masculine far right but that doesn't have anything to do with porn but everything with hate.

> And we all turned out fine I might add.

Absolutely not. You might personally feel like (or want to tell yourself that) porn didn't negatively affect you. I can tell you with certainty that porn negatively affected my social and sexual development. (I was literally afraid to physically open my mouth around girls when I was 10 years old because of porn.)

> Of course not counting the toxic masculine far right but that doesn't have anything to do with porn but everything with hate.

There are plenty of pipelines between porn and "toxic masculinity."

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#345

Post by jacobgkau »

anon291 wrote: post #251
jacobgkau wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parental control software has existed for decades. It hasn't worked. Over 70% of teenagers Yes, there were other ways of trying to solve the problem. Governments could've mandated explicit websites (which includes a lot of mainstream social media these days) include the RTA rating tag instead of it being a voluntary thing, which social media companies still would've fought; and governments could've also mandated all…

It's also already illegal to send porn to a minor. Porn companies that transmit porn to minors are already committing a sex crime.

It might as well not be illegal if there's no way to prosecute it, and the pre-age-verification status quo was that there was no way to prosecute it.

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#346

Post by jacobgkau »

like_any_other wrote: post #300
jacobgkau wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parental control software has existed for decades. It hasn't worked. Over 70% of teenagers Yes, there were other ways of trying to solve the problem. Governments could've mandated explicit websites (which includes a lot of mainstream social media these days) include the RTA rating tag instead of it being a voluntary thing, which social media companies still would've fought; and governments could've also mandated all…

> has existed Sorry, but if you would actually read my post, you would notice that I am not proposing that it should merely "exist", but that it should come enabled by default on all new devices.

My point is that being enabled by default on all new devices 1) would also be fought by people very similar to you (if not you specifically), and 2) would not be effective if the enabled-by-default software is not effective, which would also require additional work that you and people like you would fight.

I do agree it could be done. I disagree with your characterization that it would be easy/easier, or that the current age verification efforts are entirely nefarious and not actually trying to work the problem.

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#347

Post by brewtide »

Gormo wrote: post #218
taeric wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My only gripe here is the idea of "perhaps hold the parents culpable." I'm not opposed to the idea, but what sucks is we are ultimately all paying the cost of it going wrong. The idea that we can shunt that away to a few irresponsible people is just demonstrably not the case. Worse, it leads to situations where society seems to want to flat out be kid free in many ways. With families reportedly afraid to let their ki…

The presumption that it's not a matter of the parents' prerogative whether to decide whether the child's access should be restricted or not -- and treating the parents as accountable to someone else's standards of what is or is not appropriate for their own children -- is itself objectionable. What content is appropriate for children is properly up to their parents themselves, not to the government or to some nebulou…

The role of parent has been being diminished by society every year that goes by. I frequently remind my local school system of their role in my children's lives are and what my role in their lives are. They seem to need very frequent reminders.

Thank you for your well written take.

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#348

Post by godelski »

dietdrpeppr wrote: post #287
edgineer wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure those people exist, I just never happen to see anything they write online nor meet any of them in real life.

> There are also, concerningly IMO, an extremely large amount of people willing to accept severe surveillance or privacy downsides so long as it helps achieve the goal about kids. I’m alive. Nice to meet you. I “accept severe surveillance”, not in the sense that I agree with it, but because I know that it already exists and has existed and that people that are against it are screaming into the wind. Many large and sm…

  > If you were trying to keep your country safe, wouldn’t you like the ability to infiltrate any major cloud, SaaS app, social media platform, bank, government, VPN/internal network, and OS?
No!

In fact, the opposite!

If I have keys then so do my enemies! I want that shit locked down as much as possible because I don't want others infiltrating.

Personally if I was the president I would direct the NSA to pen test our own networks and work with companies to resolve any issues. I would make this a major priority in fact. I don't want them to be vulnerable or subject to blackmail.

Is it annoying I can't get in and watch them? Sure. But you can't have both.

Everyone is adults here and get trust. Plus, I'm the government. If I have legitimate belief they're acting illegally I have the power to get in anyways. It's just shower, requiring courts who keep my power in check

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#349

Post by godelski »

exsomet wrote: post #311
dietdrpeppr wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are also, concerningly IMO, an extremely large amount of people willing to accept severe surveillance or privacy downsides so long as it helps achieve the goal about kids. I’m alive. Nice to meet you. I “accept severe surveillance”, not in the sense that I agree with it, but because I know that it already exists and has existed and that people that are against it are screaming into the wind. Many large and sm…

This is a fairly defeatist approach to the issue (read that as a statement of fact, not an accusation or argument). The problem with taking this stance, for many people, is that you’re giving a mouse a cookie, except the cookie is marginally more and more control over your life in the form of the ability to control what you see, what communities you’re allowed to engage with, and what you’re allowed to do online. Thi…

  > that you’re giving a mouse a cookie
I read it more as "give the mouse a cookie because it's already getting crumbs"

These types of arguments are quite common due to how beneficial they are for authoritarian. People forget that authoritarians don't need a lot of supporters, but they do need a lot of people to be apathetic or feel defeated. With that in place even a very small group can exert great power. Which also tends to make their power appear larger than it is, in order to create that feedback loop

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#350

Post by kmoser »

kappaking wrote: post #329
kmoser wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pro tip: those scanners probably don't work with passports, so a human must still eyeball your passport to verify that you're old enough.

They can probably just deny you service at that point.

They can deny you service at any time, but it's unlikely they will do so if you present a valid ID, even if it's not machine-readable. Not every driver license can be easily scanned, so in that respect it's no different from a passport.
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