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In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

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Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#341

Post by ahmeneeroe-v2 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #332
rangestransform wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate this distinctly American idea that no policy can cause any detriment to any disadvantaged people at all, even if the policy effects are incredibly income-progressive overall. This is how we end up with carveouts for every special interest group in every single policy, the populace justifying turnstile hopping, lack of traffic enforcement by police, opposition to speed and red light cameras, opposition to rezon…

I mean, if we're gonna pick a group to impact, the ones who aren't already deeply struggling seem like the place to do it. Given the parent poster's commenting history here, though, I don't think they have a genuine concern in "disparate impact" at all.

Hey CJ! No I don't have a genuine concern at all. But it was a real question and thank you very much for answering it with a real answer.

FWIW, I like that there is a carveout for economically disadvantaged folks. Either way doesn't affect me since I'm not a NYer.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#342

Post by mikestew »

Spivak wrote: post #296
mikestew wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

…to have a worse time Says the person who has never owned an EV. Fifteen years of EV ownership, I’m never going back. Environmental factors aside, an EV is the overall better vehicle. You can keep your rattling ICE vehicles that need special fluid from specific vendors.

I guess I should have said "a more inconvenient time" where owning an EV kinda revolves around your charging setup/schedule in a way that you don't have to think about with ICE cars. I know some people swear by them being more fun to drive but that's the last thing on my list of requirements for a car. I will say I think you're giving ICE cars a bad rap, my little Honda Fit that will be replaced by the EV is at 150k…

I guess I should have said "a more inconvenient time" where owning an EV kinda revolves around your charging setup/schedule in a way that you don't have to think about with ICE cars.

I plug it in when I get home, and when I get in it again the "tank" is always full. I think about the EV a lot less than I do our ICE car, which seems to need gas at the most inconvenient times. You might have an argument for road trips, but even that's almost a no-brainer these days. Sure, I can't just get off at some random exit in the Utah desert and expect to find a charger, but my experience says this whole "charging on a road trip" is way overblown, as if even the slightest bit of look-ahead planning is just too much for people to handle.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#343

Post by KevinAiken »

onemoresoop wrote: post #78

It may have dropped pollution in Manhattan but I guess more pollution added up to the surrounding borroughs in addition to more traffic.

The article speaks to this as well, "Pricing led to a drop in pollution across the greater metropolitan area, according to the study, published in the journal npj Clean Air."

So while this was/is a common sentiment about congestion pricing, looks like it luckily didn't pan out.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#344

Post by autoexec »

afavour wrote: post #335
autoexec wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Very, very few people must drive into the center of Manhattan to work. I assure you that Manhattan is filled with many employees and service workers. > It was already unaffordable to do so anyway Yes, it was a massive strain on the budgets of many people, and it's the people who managed to sacrifice enough to show up for work or get where they needed to go anyway even though it was difficult for them who were most…

>I assure you that Manhattan is filled with many employees and service workers. That is not a meaningful response to "Very, very few people must drive into the center of Manhattan to work.", the two statements do not contradict each other. Those employees and service workers take the subway. > When it's an option for them and at the expense of time/convince The subway is both faster and cheaper than driving in NYC at…

> Those employees and service workers take the subway.

Not the ones who need to bring service vehicles with them. Not anyone who has to enter or return with heavy items or any number of the other many many reasons people choose to drive and not take the subway. The fact of the matter is that the subway has always been an option for many people, but not all people and it comes with costs of its own. The people driving into the city, as obnoxious as that trip is, were making the decision to put up with the traffic and parking for a reason. Now many of those people, enough to make measurable differences in pollution levels, have been priced out of that choice. "It's only a few poors, why are people bitching about it?" isn't going to make people across the country worry any less about it spreading to them.

> The subway is both faster and cheaper than driving in NYC at peak hours.

And also not an option at all for many and a less attractive option for many, as noted by the number of people who were driving. It's not as if the subway is a well kept secret.

> Right but that isn't true.

Just because you say it isn't doesn't make it true. Show me that millionaires are taking the subway because of the increased fines at the same rate as the hourly workers and I'll concede that the impact is being equally felt.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#345

Post by fullstop »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #313
stewarts wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My only experience is BMW EV, but my i4 aggressively prioritizes regeneration over using the brakes. It even has an energy meter that shows negative/positive energy flow. The positive flow is blue until the actual brakes engage where it changes to black. And this is in two pedal mode, one pedal driving is even more aggressive about regen. I would not doubt I use my breaks 1/20th of the amount that our X5 or Silverado…

It varies by model, I know some lower end EVs from GM still use the breaks quite often depending on the driving mode.

I have an Equinox EV and the brakes do not get used often. They did a great job with blending kinetic regeneration with friction activation, but you can still feel the difference when it kicks in.

They are active in reverse, to ensure that they are used and so that any rust gets cleared from the rotors. They also activate if you slam on the brakes or if the battery is at 100% charge and the kinetic energy can not be used.

I have about 12,000 miles on the car over the last year and the rotors and pads look the same as when I got them. The first annual inspection showed no measurable wear.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#346

Post by ceejayoz »

scottyah wrote: post #287
KptMarchewa wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't Tesla Model Y SUVs though?

No, they're crossovers. Closer to a hatchback.

I mean, they're literally called SUVs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossover_SUV

Even https://www.tesla.com/modely uses the term "Electric Midsize SUV"

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#347

Post by pixl97 »

afthonos wrote: post #301
pixl97 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's starting to make me sceptical of environmental claims in general. What does that even mean? Honestly whatever it means it sounds like you would be the kind of person that would fall for the firehose of falsehood rather than look for the truth behind the actual claims.

For 99.9% of issues, we rely on trust to make up our minds. We assume people are mostly not lying. If a group of people are found to lie, then yes, maybe “look for the truth behind the actual claims” is worth it, but more likely shooting them out of the discourse and into the metaphorical sun is the right response. If you walk around lying, you don’t get to complain that people aren’t doing research on your claims.

>We assume people are mostly not lying

Why? There are massive incentives for people to lie in a great many cases, especially where profits exist. Car manufactures, as we know, gladly lie and fake evidence. Even when there are massive fines involved, the fines are generally less than what they make in profit from the lies.

What's even better is you can play both sides to confuse the issue. Create 3rd party groups on the other side of your claims and have them make up the stupidest claims "Just looking at a car will give you cancer". Flood the zone with false information, bullshit asymmetry. Lobby the shit out of politicians so they don't care about the issues, only the money it brings in.

The confused regulars in the middle are so propagandized to they no longer know up from down and billionaires laugh all the way to the bank.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#348

Post by autoexec »

Kye wrote: post #339
dannyr wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're replying to someone with the username "autoexec".

Probably referring to autoexec.bat, not cars.

lol I hadn't even considered that. I didn't know what that comment was getting at and thought that maybe it was a dig at my age!

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#349

Post by ceejayoz »

driverdan wrote: post #266
hamdingers wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a widely debunked bad faith NIMBY talking point. A train, even at high frequencies, is less noise pollution than a highway or major road.

That's only if there are no crossings. Trains are required to sound their extremely loud horns at every crossing which can be heard from miles away.

Such crossings are pretty rare in NYC, and even rarer in passenger routes there.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Level_crossings_...

State/local governments can also declare a quiet zone. https://railroads.dot.gov/railroad-safety/divisions/crossing...

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