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Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

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Re: Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

#341

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

GloamingNiblets wrote: post #118
xnx wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Highways are on average a much more structured and consistent environment, but every single weird thing (pedestrians, animals, debris, flooding) that occurs on streets also happens on highways. When you're doing as many trips and miles as Waymo, once-in-a-lifetime exceptions happen every day. On highways the kinetic energy is much greater (Waymo's reaction time is superhuman, but the car can't brake any harder.) and…

I don't have any specific knowledge about Waymo's stack, but I can confidently say Waymo's reaction time is likely poorer than an attentive human. By the time sensor data makes it through the perception stack, prediction/planning stack, and back to the controls stack, you're likely looking at >500ms. Waymos have the advantage of consistency though (they never text and drive).

Humans can provide a simple, pre-planned reaction to an expected event (e.g. "click when the reaction test shows a signal") within typically 250-300ms, but 500ms from vision to physically executed action for an unexpected event seems pretty optimistic for a human driver.

Re: Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

#342

Post by foobazgt »

macintux wrote: post #239
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Normal human drivers tend to lift off the gas and only brake when they decide that just lifting won't do Don't EVs light up the brake lights when regenerative braking engages?

As best as I can tell, not universally. I'm rather obsessive about watching brake lights around me; my state doesn't have safety inspections, so I try my best to alert other drivers when they have brake lights out. I've definitely observed Teslas coming to a halt, and the brake lights only kick on at the very end. I don't know how widespread the problem is, but it's very annoying.

Teslas illuminate brake lights based on deceleration (until reaching a stop), which is the desired behavior. I use regen braking aggressively to slow down, and different light behavior would give people seizures or make them brake-light-deaf.

If you're annoyed by the braking lights on a Tesla, it's because you're following too (dangerously) closely.

Re: Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

#343

Post by jwagenet »

crazygringo wrote: post #328
jwagenet wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get the gripe. AirTrain gets you to A,E,J,Z, and LIRR, all of which get you to "Manhattan" or a significant number of intermediate destinations in about an hour. LGA is far worse.

Having to take AirTrain beyond the terminals at all is annoying. LIRR should just go to JFK directly. AirTrain is slow as molasses, and the fact that it costs money is absurd. It works and I'm glad it exists, but it's nothing like e.g. the Paris RER connecting CDG. You generally never want to take A/E/J/Z because they're sooo much slower than LIRR, unless you live along them. Yes, LGA is far worse.

> the fact that it costs money is absurd

Bart from SFO to downtown SF is about $11 due to a surcharge and the combined fare AirTrain + subway is also about $11.50. LIRR is a bit more expensive. The Paris RER is €13. I don’t see how the fare is objectionable.

I personally appreciate the subway connections exist. Taking LIRR would require a subway transfer to most destinations anyway.

Re: Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

#345

Post by smoovb »

world2vec wrote: post #45

An interesting prospect is that a bunch of autonomous cars on the freeways might have a meaningful impact in preventing traffic jams (specifically those "phantom jams") [0] simply by driving in a calm and pondered way always at a constant distance. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m74zazYPwkY&t=1860s

If it comes to pass that traffic jams are in large part due to poor human choices, that will bode poorly for the general populace to continue to be allowed to drive.

Flying used to be like this - my grandpa had 3 airplanes, used one to fly a calf back to his farm. But flying got regulated till it's quite rare to meet a casual pilot with his own plane.

Re: Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

#346

Post by dom96 »

nradov wrote: post #115
mmmlinux wrote: post #28

I was in SF a few weekend ago and rode both Waymo and normal Lyft style taxi cars. the Waymo was a better experience in every single way. One of the Lyfts i was in drove on the shoulder for a while like it was a lane. The Waymos were just smooth consistent driving. No aggressive driving to get you dumped off so they can get to the next fair.

Waymo cars are also more likely to be properly maintained. I've noticed that a lot of Uber / Lyft cars have some kind of warning light on the dashboard: check engine, low tire pressure, overdue for service.

This seems to be a US thing. Every time I take an Uber/Lyft in the US the car that shows up more often than not has a cracked windshield. In the UK this just doesn't happen, maybe because we have stricter laws around what is safe to drive and a cracked windshield wouldn't pass an MOT.

Re: Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

#349

Post by acdha »

GloamingNiblets wrote: post #118
xnx wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Highways are on average a much more structured and consistent environment, but every single weird thing (pedestrians, animals, debris, flooding) that occurs on streets also happens on highways. When you're doing as many trips and miles as Waymo, once-in-a-lifetime exceptions happen every day. On highways the kinetic energy is much greater (Waymo's reaction time is superhuman, but the car can't brake any harder.) and…

I don't have any specific knowledge about Waymo's stack, but I can confidently say Waymo's reaction time is likely poorer than an attentive human. By the time sensor data makes it through the perception stack, prediction/planning stack, and back to the controls stack, you're likely looking at >500ms. Waymos have the advantage of consistency though (they never text and drive).

Beyond the questions about human braking, this seems worse than the dedicated AEB systems many vehicles are using now. Do they really use the full stack for this case instead of a faster collision avoidance path? I remember some of their people talking about concurrency back in the DARPA Grand Challenge days and it seems like this would be a high priority for anyone working on a system like this.

Re: Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

#350

Post by [deleted] »

nradov wrote: post #112
cortesoft wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily this won't be a problem in Los Angeles, because traffic prevents you from ever going over the speed limit.

It's hilarious to see people in LA buying sports cars. Like even if you're willing to risk a speeding ticket you won't be able to drive faster than the traffic in front of you. Just a status symbol, I guess.

[deleted]
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