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Roc Camera

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Re: Roc Camera

#341

Post by RankingMember »

harddrivereque wrote: post #327

But why does the case look like it is made out of garbage?

It looks 3d-printed (edit: confirmed- there's footage of it being 3d printed on the FAQ page). I'd expect a process with a better finish for the final product, but who knows with products like this that are in beta.

Found this sort of funny too, from the FAQ:

> Is this production ready?

> No. The Roc Camera is currently in beta and we suggest you do not use it for anything important at the moment. We're open to feedback and suggestions. Please reach out to us at support@roc.camera.

Re: Roc Camera

#342

Post by torginus »

vwcx wrote: post #336
torginus wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This gave me an idea - what if we made a stable diffusion based AI that would replace unimportant faces (and possibly other identifying details) with different ones - I have seen that AI can do this and make the change unnoticeable. That way people would be safe from having their personal likeness and whereabouts accidentally plastered over the internet (except when they want their photo to be taken), and the end res…

That's a solution that prioritizes privacy over reality, and I'm not sure we collectively want that. Mutilation of truth in the name of protection etc...

Yes that's a tradeoff - but I was thinking it would still be better than stuff like Google street view's mess of blurs.

Re: Roc Camera

#343

Post by didacusc »

What a silly idea, a whole Raspberry Pi for basic photography! Just the boot-up alone would drive someone nuts, you'd miss the moment every time and I'd drain your battery if you left it on. So silly.

Re: Roc Camera

#344

Post by didacusc »

keyle wrote: post #56
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is rather expensive for what looks like a home 3D printed toy with some cute software. This attitude really rubs me the wrong way, especially on a site called Hacker News. I think we absolutely should be supporting projects like this (if you think they're worth supporting), else all we're left with is giant corporation monoculture. Hardware startups are incredibly difficult, and by their nature new hardware pr…

Hey it's fine to make a 3d printed camera and cool stuff like that. But it's another thing to make it a product, that isn't shipping yet and asking $399 with a shiny website and with closed source software. I don't mean to disregard the technical feat, but I question the intent.

Couldn't agree more!

Re: Roc Camera

#345

Post by zipy124 »

dbdr wrote: post #216
dimas_codes wrote: post #144

I am sorry if I missed something or someone already asked it, but: If I generate image with AI, print it, then take a photo of it with Roc Camera so that you can't tell that this is actually a printed image, I will then have an AI image with ZKP of its authenticity?

Sony has this on their related page: > A digital signature alone cannot determine whether the captured image is of an actual 3D subject, or of an image or video projected on a high-definition monitor. However, by using metadata including 3D depth information, it is possible to verify the authenticity of images with a high degree of accuracy. By using cameras from Sony, both the image and the 3D depth information can…

The depth information that sony cameras collect is almost certainly low-res enough that even with a simple image->depthmap model[0] you could fool it. Also they don't say anything about the sensor itself being secure, no need to print something if you can just emulate the sensor with an FPGA or other.

[0]: https://github.com/CompVis/depth-fm

Re: Roc Camera

#346

Post by zipy124 »

ludicrousdispla wrote: post #143

Does anyone know if the camera sensor includes depth map information? Otherwise what is stopping someone from photographing a large high-resolution print of an AI generated image.

this one does not. Other cameras do include one, or can make a depth sensor via the real sensor since autofocus/focus stacking allows depth extraction, especially if using a low aperature number.

Re: Roc Camera

#347

Post by clifdweller »

bambax wrote: post #188
peteforde wrote: post #62

I used to be really (really really) into photography. I respect anyone working hard on a physical product, but this misses the mark on every front I can think of. The real issue that photographers grapple with, emotionally and financially, is that pictures have become so thoroughly commodified that nobody assigns them cultural value anymore. They are the thumbnail you see before the short video clip starts playing. N…

Agreed. This product seems pointless because nobody's interested in a proof of authenticity (except maybe in certain legal niches?) I take pics for me and my friends and family, and AI has almost zero impact on this (although, face swaping is lots of fun, and everyone understands it's fake and a joke). Edit: also, and more importantly, the question of authenticity is moot. The point of art in general is to say someth…

The idea isn't a bad one in some cases like travel photography. Between background people removal and lightroom a good chunk of travel pictures are not a good representation of what you can expect. on Instagram there are plenty of pictures of people standing alone in front of the Eifel tower or at inari gates in afternoon lighting that is unrealistic outside the pandemic or a 6am shot. Or take cherry blossom viewing in tokyo. More trees are white or very light pink but you would not know that looking at what people post often the camera auto balancing to make them more pink because if it doesn't people think there is a problem with the camera; that incentivizes sony, canon etc to build that in.

Re: Roc Camera

#348

Post by ch_fr »

> How are my photos stored?

>> We store the photos generated by the Roc Camera on IPFS (by default). We'll have more information on this soon, so check back for more details in the future.

> How do I get my photos off the camera?

>> Coming soon. We're working on export functionality to get your photos off the camera.

> Where is the ZKP generated?

>> The zero-knowledge proofs are generated on-device using the Raspberry Pi 4.

I am a bit puzzled as to why IPFS was used as the "primary" storage medium there, it's a Pi so wouldn't it be pretty easy to make it have a micro-sd port? Wouldn't it be able to work fully locally then?

When I look at their socials, it seems like they primarily engage with a crypto-focused audience, all of this leads me to believe that IPFS and ZKP are the actual main appeal of this product... not that there's anything overtly wrong with this.

Re: Roc Camera

#349

Post by jvanderbot »

ch_fr wrote: post #348

> How are my photos stored? >> We store the photos generated by the Roc Camera on IPFS (by default). We'll have more information on this soon, so check back for more details in the future. > How do I get my photos off the camera? >> Coming soon. We're working on export functionality to get your photos off the camera. > Where is the ZKP generated? >> The zero-knowledge proofs are generated on-device using the Raspberr…

Well, its more likely they just don't know. They haven't figured that out. So, they'll hire a hardware guy and it'll all change.

Re: Roc Camera

#350

Post by jvanderbot »

jeswin wrote: post #96

I am actually willing to support DIY camera efforts, but if you're semi-serious about taking pictures, this just wouldn't work. First, Raspberry Pi (I'm guessing this is a CM4/CM5) is a disaster for a camera board. Nobody wants a 20s boot every time you want to take a picture, cameras need to be near instantaneous. And you can't keep it on either, because the RPi can't really sleep. There are boards that can actually…

Another thread mentioned that this camera was made by crypto enthusiasts from a software/ZKP starting point, and not a photography starting point. If true, it will have a lot of maturation to do, but most likely they will either be incorporated into a "real" camera design, or they will just fold.
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